We are working on a major improvements. The next version will simplify this kind of features:
Just drag files, on the grid, auto adjust the length to the synchro.
Very soon.
Yeah, sounds great!!!Just drag files, on the grid, auto adjust the length to the synchro.
Very soon.
Statistics: Posted by nofish — 13 Dec 2007, 16:25
]]>
Statistics: Posted by kara — 12 Dec 2007, 14:12
]]>
I've done a bit of work on it now, but I'm far from finished... There's always some other ideas to implement and test, but here's some details of it so far:
Key zoning:
Trigger modes:
- normal (as input)
- toggle (NOTEOFF ignored, NOTEON in toggles ON/OFF)
- off (no output)
Velocity modes (NOTEON velocity only):
- normal (as input)
- calculated (input * compression/expansion ratio +/- fixed value)
- fixed value
- inverted (128 - input)
+ transpose, midi channel out (obviously!), and "thru" (input to output).
Technically every note from 0 to 127 is a zone, but you won't have to program it that way. In programming mode the two latest received NOTEONs define the current note range. Polyphonic aftertouch will use the same zones to define which note numbers and channels to output, but there's no way of altering the aftertouch values.
Channel message dispatcher:
This will for each of the 16 midi channels select whether to output the following types of messages: pitch wheel, program change, aftertouch, and control changes. I also think I'll add an "aftertouch to CC" option (with selectable CC number) since there are some instruments that don't understand aftertouch. It could of course also be used to create a CC in addition to the aftertouch.
The key zoning is working, but I will do some more on the UI bit, while I haven't yet programmed anything on the channel message stuff. I'm quite certain that it will be ready for the next release.
If you have any comments, please feel free!
Statistics: Posted by bsork — 12 Dec 2007, 12:33
]]>
]]>
Very soon.
Statistics: Posted by senso — 11 Dec 2007, 18:02
]]>
]]>
k
Statistics: Posted by kara — 11 Dec 2007, 14:13
]]>
Btw this is one reason why I got stuck with Usine - helpfull developer and forum community!
As for loop triggering:
When I first tried Ableton Live for this, it was so straight forward to me, I didn't even almost have to read the manual. There are slots where you can drop your loops, adjust quantize settings and assign the on/off button to a Midi controller.
See picture here:
To be honest, I don't know how to accomplish this with Usine.
That's the next thing I want to do, so what's the best way?
Or should I better start a new thread?
Statistics: Posted by nofish — 11 Dec 2007, 14:03
]]>
...- no keysplit module included (one of the most basic things for live performance IMO)
Yes there is basic one, it's called MidiKeySplit.patYou can load it as a subpatch in your patch and you can combine them to have different splits
I think there 2 of them in the add-on section- a patch is needed for a simple metronome out
Hmm that one I don't understand.- no instant audio and midi loop triggering like for example in Ableton Live
ALL my live patches are based on that.
Can you explain what you want to do exactly, I don't have live....
Just a very basic example
Take a piano roll, load 8 parts (midi loops) in it and of you go
That was mu original postSo I think, Usine is unbeatable for modular manipulation, but some more "high level" modules would be nice to get beginners started...
)Statistics: Posted by kara — 10 Dec 2007, 18:12
]]>
So I started getting into Usine and I really like it by now, but I agree it's hard to learn...
I was alomost about giving up when I found out
- no keysplit module included (one of the most basic things for live performance IMO)
- a patch is needed for a simple metronome out
- no instant audio and midi loop triggering like for example in Ableton Live
So I think, Usine is unbeatable for modular manipulation, but some more "high level" modules would be nice to get beginners started...
Statistics: Posted by nofish — 10 Dec 2007, 15:49
]]>
Usine and patches doing what musicians need it to will the key to it's success. Keeping some things proprietary - like that of complicated patches, helps to protect those who take the time and effort to create them. I think it would encourage even more development.
i.e. The source code to Usine itself isn't and shouldn't be "open". I suppose I could just go out and write my own raw software, but I'd rather Olivier with his insight and talent do it. I don't care that VST and VSTi's I buy are closed. Same for some patches, good ones that do something I really need can be closed - and I'd still buy them if they fit my needs.
And it will eventually happen that somebody spends big time and effort on a patch only to have the next version of Usine embed the capability in it. That's why I think Senso - should look them over.
PS - Bsork - I agree on the midi-related beginner problems. That's what I have problems with. Especially complicated VSTi like Jamstix, which is wonderful for live playing.
Statistics: Posted by raintalk — 08 Dec 2007, 02:39
]]>
The add-ons section reminds me of the Reaktor user library. Reaktor user ensembles are free to download, just like Usine add-ons, and I think it should stay that way. If the reaktor user library went commercial, I think that would dissapoint a lot of people. I think usine just needs to build a bigger user community to see more uploading.
I'd still like to offer an idea. If people really wanted to be able to charge for add-ons, maybe we could develop a system like what istockphoto.com uses. Go take a look at the site to see how it works. It is credit based. Everything on the site costs a certain amount of credits. To get credits, you can either buy them, or upload your own photos (and if they are good quality, you are awarded credits).
That might be more trouble than it's worth, but it'd be a great way to motivate people to make patches, and upload them.
Statistics: Posted by eimhin — 07 Dec 2007, 16:35
]]>
Statistics: Posted by jean-mi — 07 Dec 2007, 16:11
]]>
I'm going to try to do a patch or five that I think (or rather hope...) could solve some of the more typical MIDI problems
Yes good idea.It's seems to be strange but, I never play keyboards on stage so I don't really know what kind of patches I can do to solve major problems...
Probably. We have to think carefully about this model. But I like it!I think that the price should be set by the creator, but within limits. And a limit of 5€ seems reasonable to me.
Statistics: Posted by senso — 07 Dec 2007, 15:03
]]>
...a totally and definitively protected patch doesn't fit to the modular global spirit of Usine(?)
I agree, but I dislike the idea of not being able to view the "inside" of a patch. If a tag of some sort can easily be adapted to protect the modules and connections (but not the values!) of a demo patch, it's possible to have a look at what it does and maybe get some ideas for modifications that would suit you. Of course, if one really doesn't want to pay for anything, such a patch could be "hand-copied" or the protection scheme cracked, but so be it...Agree!A source of infinite conflicts...
The number of downloads doesn't really tell much about the quality unless it's for the paid version of a protected patch. What about a rating system?your patch is good because it's downloaded a lot.
I think that the price should be set by the creator, but within limits. And a limit of 5€ seems reasonable to me.Some add-ons are free and others cost for example 5€
[commercial break]
"HOLIDAY SPECIAL!!! Download my Destructor_Off_All patch NOW!!! Only 2.99!!!"
[/commercial break]
Spot on!A good add-ons database is good for the soft!!!
---
...and now to the original topic of this thread..:
It seems to me that what a lot of new users are struggling with is MIDI-related. And it's true that compared to a lot of other hosts, remapping notes and such-like could be made easier. Even if you're able and willing to sit down and do some real work with a patch, it's a lot more complicated to manipulate MIDI than most other data in Usine since MIDI is made of variable length records, and also have message types that "belong together" - the most obvious example being NoteOns and NoteOffs. Things are a lot simpler when you have some single value and want to do some simple logical or mathematical operations on it.
To do something with the newbie problem, I'm going to try to do a patch or five that I think (or rather hope...) could solve some of the more typical MIDI problems in a not too user-unfriendly manner. I haven't programmed anything yet, so don't hold your breath!
Statistics: Posted by bsork — 07 Dec 2007, 13:58
]]>
But I think that the major interest of Usine is to be able to modify patches easily and adapt them to our configuration. So a totally and definitively protected patch doesn't fit to the modular global spirit of Usine(?)
The concept of 'approved by sensomusic' is not easy to implement.
Who can decide that a patch is good? me? another person?
Imagine, you spend a week to make a patch, and then I decide that your patch is finally a piece of shit! ---> NOT APPROVED. What will be your reaction? A source of infinite conflicts...
The selection can only be done by the entire community: your patch is good because it's downloaded a lot. It's not because nobody like it! Simple?
About the Universal Audio model
The more I think about this idea the more I like it!
The add-ons database is made of Sensomusic and third users patches.
Some add-ons are free and others cost for example 5€.
A new User starts with a credit of let say 50€. So he can download 10 add-ons. Include in the package.
If an user buy a third party add-on, the sellers receives a credit of 5€, available for other add-ons or for any product of sensomusic, included Usine license!
We have to find rules to avoid a database of 37456 patches.
something like:
Each user can upload only 2 or 3 paying add-ons and, of course, an unlimited number of free patches.
It's the best way to encourage creators to upload only their best patches for paying, and then make a selection....
And if you make a best-seller patch which is downloaded a lot, it's finally normal to have an Usine license for free because you contribute to the success of the soft.
A good add-ons database is good for the soft!!!
Statistics: Posted by senso — 07 Dec 2007, 12:24
]]>
I look at Usine as a platform, and it would benefit by many great minds creating addons for different situations and workflows. Even some situations that no one has ran into yet.
Having a way to protect the plugin's content, and allow it to be sold would encourage the growth of Usine as a platform.
Perhaps the compiler step could be something done by the Usine site?
Having the official "Approved by Sensomusic" QA and stamp on it.
Just an idea
Statistics: Posted by raintalk — 07 Dec 2007, 01:50
]]>
Anyway, my point isn't about selling patches as add-ons or not, it is just about the fact that Usine, as it is sold, should contains more ready to use components for the beginner and non-technical musician.
If you want to have a parallel with Ext, think about the midi channel component which is ready to use for everyone. Now if you want the same in Usine you'll have some work to do, work that not everybody is able to do
k
once upon a time the term "shareware" involved the idea of sharing. of contributing to a community. and since every user contributed something to the software, prices could be kept low, therefore lots of people could buy it and the developer could make a living from it. nice idea isn't it?
i think selling patches is artificial scarcity. there are two likey outcomes: either the demand will shrink and there will be less users (& less money)
or there will still be a demand and someone will crack and distribute the soft and patches via p2p (like it happend with reqtor). this would mean driving your customers into illegality. i am in favor of the sharing idea. ask jorgen, he's done it and he has some nice income now
Statistics: Posted by kara — 06 Dec 2007, 16:42
]]>
or there will still be a demand and someone will crack and distribute the soft and patches via p2p (like it happend with reqtor). this would mean driving your customers into illegality. i am in favor of the sharing idea. ask jorgen, he's done it and he has some nice income now
Statistics: Posted by edi — 06 Dec 2007, 16:23
]]>
I'm not totally agree with you, olivier about the doublebass. of course you spent days and years practicing , like i do for piano ( it's my job like you) but in fact you are not alone . you work with a lot of people who help you and in my opinion you learn very quickly when you work with human ( for exemple I don't imagine to learn something from Bernard Cazauran ( a very nice person) with just a fantastic forum and a very nice manual from him. so the form of training is different, therefore the training is different.
usine is so musical that i not possible to "learn" it like other host ( modular or sequencer) It's not possible to just have a technical training and for me it's like to learn piano without teacher. why not? but you will quickly find your limit.
it's the same for instruments i play since a long time musical saw and I learn it alone. It works because it's a very "simple" instrument ( not easy but simple) it not possible to learn alone more complex instrument like doublebass or violin.
If i want to use usine and be good with it, It will take a lot of training, and I know that. that's why I works with it a lot like my other instruments. but I think it's very important to find help at the beginning , or a lot of people will try usine, find it so incredible ( you know like when you ear an instrument for the first time and immediately fall in love with it) but after one month then think they're never be able to use it because they do not have necessary competences ( like a lot of people who begin a instrument),that's not true of course.
for exemple , all my other host have I midi clock out for hardware synths. I spent hours to try to create a patch , then bsork post the midi clock out and after working on it I understand how it works.but if there is directly a midiclock out from the setup menu it could help
Statistics: Posted by damstraversaz — 06 Dec 2007, 11:02
]]>
Another pb, before buy a patch you would probably try it. So it means a system of keyword/demo patches?
Why not an " approved by senso" meaning that's it work well? So......I have 3500 patches to sell, with 1500 of them are not perfect. Good luck!Good news, I need money. No need to go to "Usine", my new factory is at home.
Statistics: Posted by moody33 — 06 Dec 2007, 10:52
]]>
Personally I like Universal Audio style with the UAD1 dsp cards.
You buy the card and you have a 'credit' of 500$ for the FX's you want.
We can imagine the same with Usine, you buy the soft and you have a 50€ of credit to get additional patches. Each patch cost like 5€ then you choose those you need. If you need more you pay more.
And we can extend the idea with add-ons. If someone buy a patch made by a third person (not from sensomusic), the credit is transfered to that person. With this credit, the original builder can buy new patches!
Or get his money back? with a margin for sensomusic? In that case how to proceed without transform sensomusic into a 'Paypal' like site?
I like this model.
Another pb, before buy a patch you would probably try it. So it means a system of keyword/demo patches?
I'm not a great fan of donationware. Usine use to be like that but each time it was ambiguous. With the normal license model, things are clear.
Statistics: Posted by senso — 06 Dec 2007, 09:34
]]>
Well... if you look at the kvr thread that I quoted in my OP, the guy was saying that he couldn' split the midi comming from his keyboard without using script (or some other math) and that is pretty fundamental for a live player and a usine beginner
Isn't it ?
k
Yeah, absolutely. Isn't it ?
k
Looking back I just want to be clear that nothing I said was in reaction to your posts, kara. I read them, but didn't know what to say.
I personally would be more than happy to bang out everything to make a new user oriented the moment they sit down but *I* don't understand Usine well enough yet!
Which is not Usine's fault. I've been terribly discombobulated IRL but I do, so so much, want to help.
Statistics: Posted by runagate — 06 Dec 2007, 00:47
]]>
k
Statistics: Posted by kara — 05 Dec 2007, 22:54
]]>
donationware could be an alternative for gold users, just an idea ...
Totally agreed!Statistics: Posted by jean-mi — 05 Dec 2007, 22:49
]]>