Newbie: How to get the BCF2000 working with Usine Free?

[Thomas Helzle]

Sorry, newbie alert:

I'm currently using the free version to evaluate if I want to buy the full one.
Not really sure yet since some things don't work yet for me.

I was following the quickstart tutorial and stumbled upon something that doesn't work here - I wonder if it is because I'm using the Free version? I searched the forum but couldn't find an answer...

- I have a BCF2000 here and can for the life of me not get the motorfaders, buttons etc. to react to changes I make in Usine. I have the BCF set as midi in and out, have it active as a controller in setup, assign a BCF-fader to a slider in the interface via Midi learn (that part works) and then activate this parameter as remote as well.
I tried all the settings in the midi setup, but no dice - my BCF doesn't react at all.
(It works just fine in Ableton Live 8.21)
Do I have to set the BCF to a specific mode? (I use U-3 normally).
Or what else could be wrong?

- Overall, the quickstart tutorial should be reviewed by a real newbie at hand. In several cases I was completely lost, since I simply didn't know where to look for something the author said I should do (add a simple delay... - from which category?) later on it becomes clearer, but especially for a quickstart, I found it not really smooth on the first pages and often things aren't really well explained.

- Something weird: On my machine, in the Usine browser, I can click on the little triangles in front of categories and they flip - similar to how it works/looks in OSX - but the categories don't open. So at first I thought there are no modules etc. at all, since nothing did show up. Only later I found that I have to doubleclick on the categorie name.
Again, not a problem for oldtimers, but I was rather lost at first.
Looks almost like a half-finished alternative way to open categories?

- One more problem is, that it seems parameter changes on for instance a knob jump to some random value suddenly when I use Usine with my Wacom Pen and click with the tip on the control.
I never use a mouse and this would be rather important for me.
When I attach a mouse, I can see how it's supposed to work...
Any solutions for this?

Thanks a lot for any suggestions and hints!

Thomas

Edit: I forgot to add: Windows 7 64 Bit, running as Admin, no other audio software running, Usine as the latest standalone.

[nay-seven]

Hello and welcome Thomas !

about the bcf , here what you have to check
in global setup :
bcr as midi in
bcr as midi out + remote and fast remote out activated
on your fader :
right click and choose also remote (send out) here too
will work..

about the manual , thanks for this "newbie " review, will check this
about the wacom tablet , i think i've one somewhere, gone to try..

[Thomas Helzle]

Well, that is exactly what I did with the BCF2000 and it doesn't work
Do I have to run it in Mackie Control mode maybe (I don't)?

Anything else I can look for?

Cheers,

Thomas

[nay-seven]

mm, strange, works perfectly here with a bcr2000 ( i know senso use the bcf without problems too )( never change mode , not sure about this, will check )
same for the wacom on a win seven 64...no particular problems found, no random jump..?

[Thomas Helzle]

Thanks a lot for checking it out nay-seven.

I tried in mackie control mode as well - no dice at all.

Clarification of the Wacom issue: If you us a mouse to control a knob, no matter where on the knob you click, the value doesn't jump but starts changing from where it was before.
If I use my Wacom Intuos 4 in Pen mode (absolute positioning) and click on that same knob, it jumps to a different position (seemingly random) and starts changing from there - which is not what you want to happen

Thanks and cheers!

Thomas

[Thomas Helzle]

One more thing about the quick start tutorial:
One page 26 the user is asked to drag the "Kaos Player" into the patch - but there is no Kaos Player, at least in the free version ...

Cheers,

Thomas

Edit: This is the german version I refer to.

[nay-seven]

yes, I've understand the problem, but i don't have this on mine ( i 've let the default settings for the wacom and use the windows drivers too)

about your fader , you've see the difference with the remote(send out ) and the remote ( absolute, relative,toggle) modes..( these mode are for midi in..?
we need the send out one here..( you can also access this by right clicking and choose "find in remote panel"

[Thomas Helzle]

Not sure if windows comes with sensible drivers for a wacom (windows may run it as a mouse - not sure)?
I'm using the driver from wacom 6.11 (later ones are buggy) in pen mode.

I think I tried every possible combination to get the BCF running and yes, I used the "find in remote panel" route.
No dice.

Seems I'm out of luck with Usine

Cheers,

Thomas

[nay-seven]

i mean I've let windows find the drivers for me...but he install the wacom one

about bcf , if you activate the trace function in the global setup /midi out and if you move the fader with the mouse, can you see something in the console ( black window on the right of the dashboard)..?

about the kaoss player patch you're right , this patch is no more here, you can replace it by the bar recorder one to do the same exercise..

[Thomas Helzle]

Yeah, midi is sent and received, I used trace to check for that...
Is it possible that the free version doesn't work with controllers?

Yeah, I used something else for the tutorial, but things like that add to the confusion of a newb

Cheers,

Thomas

[nay-seven]

no, no limitations on midi for the free version...

[nay-seven]

ok, I've test with the free version and I've strange results... I've send a report to senso...

[Thomas Helzle]

Ah - good to hear that it's not just me

Thank you so much!

Thomas

[senso]

issue confirmed in the free version only.
will be corrected soon (in the 5.25k).

[Thomas Helzle]

Hi Olivier,

is this confirmation only about the BCF issue or can your reproduce the other things as well (Wacom pen, Browser category triangles)?

Thanks and Cheers!

Thomas

[nay-seven]

no, only about midi out issue..
the double click in the browser is normal ( usine has a specific way to use click and double click because of his multi touch features )
about wacom, don't know , we need an other user to confirm ( 23fx23 no wacom tablet ..?) here or maybe something in your parameters..?

[Thomas Helzle]

Well, it's not about the doubleclick, but about if I click on the triangle in front of the title, the triangle flips, but the folder doesn't open.
I seem to do that all the time since a lot of other "browsers" have those little triangles or + signs to open a folder.

But it's just something that got me stumped and I wanted to give feedback about.

So far Usine isn't really what I'm looking for - you don't have to fix those issues for me specifically.

Cheers,

Thomas

[23fx23]

I have a wacom tablet but I didn't tried with usine, i will test, but it it is certainly possible it raise pbs.

At the time i tested, most softs using knobs don't react very well with the absolute mode of tablets vs relative mode of mouse.
because i suppose internally the softs use relative mode.

ie Ableton live makes crasy jumps as well with wacoms when controlling knobs/faders, so i think it's "normal".

[Thomas Helzle]

23fx23: I understand what you mean, but for instance in Ableton Live, while you have to set a specific command in the options.txt file ("-AbsoluteMouseMode") to make a tablet work, from then on it is very smooth: for a slider it makes sense to jump to where you click, since it's easy to grab the slider-gadget if you want to avoid a jump. For rotary knobs, they react basically like the ones in Usine with a mouse, they don't jump somewhere but stay where they are and you can then move them around relative to the original position.
In Usine, even if I click exactly on the point where the rotary knobs ends is, it jumps to somewhere else.

In theory a tablet should be very similar to a touchscreen, where you also get absolute position values...

senso: I can confirm that in version 5.25k free the problem with the BCF2000 is gone. Thanks!
The browser-triangle weirdness is still there though

Thanks a lot - I'll keep an eye on Usine

Cheers,

Thomas

[23fx23]

i can confirm the folders not opening occasionally too, the arrows turns down but nothing is displayed in the folder.

i see what you mean , i didn't knew they fixed that with recent ableton via this option trick.
note that there is a solution in usine, not directly on knobs, but most items have a mouseXY outlet that will work ok
with absolute mode, so you can connect ie Y to your knob, and it will reflect the absolute position of where you cliqued.
in the panel.(ie with image panel module or XY module)
ive made an addon that is build on something like this and work in booth absolute or relative mode as a knob.
it's called 'encoder swich'., you might check it. But I can understand you would like it to work natively on usine knobs.
i guess it was a secure thing senso made to avoid jumps when using mouse, it forces the mouse to go to actual position,
but some absolute option might be cool indeed.

edit(oops sorry i forgot addons are temp restricted, u can mail me at 23fx23arobazeGmail.com if ya want it).

[Thomas Helzle]

After some more testing I finally gave in and bought a license today

Thank you senso for the fast bugfix!
Fast support is the best "advertisement" ever!

At first I somehow didn't like Usine, but each time I opened it I became more aware that it is much closer to what I had hoped Plogue Bidule to be, which I bought some time ago - while it's cool in principle, it is missing any concept of usable user interface and many things are pretty clumsy. This morning I tried something with Bidule and got very strange results - then I switched to Usine Free and the same thing was done in 5 minutes, elegant UI, integrated controller and all.

Sold

23fx23: thanks a lot! I will give your addon a try now that I'm licensed. When I will understand Usine better, I may make this into a feature request, but ATM I'm way too green I guess.

This is my options.txt file for Ableton (without the forums "Code:" tag that is)

Code: Select all

-MidiEventThinning=0 
-ThinningAggressiveness=0
-AbsoluteMouseMode

The Absolute mode is for the wacom, the other two do basically what the fast mode for controller output does in Usine - make the BCF2000 faders and dials go smoothly.

Thanks again for the help and looking forward to diving into Usines depths..

Thomas

[23fx23]

cool, so re_welcome thomas

glad you stay on boat, you ll see usine is like good wine, when we are young we don't like and the more we grow the more we like :)It take a month or two to get really used with the modules and possibilities, then you ll find quasi anything is possible one way or the other.

yes check the addons, it can give you a by waiting solution, maybe senso will think about that absolute mode.
yes if you feel it's a real pb, and it can be, put a sugg in sugg thread, sometimes things are easy to implement,
sometimes not, but senso always listen and answer us. (also here i feel it will be hard, but who knows..)
my encoders are a bit higher cpu but im gonna work on new lower cpu simpler system.
there is the encoder-switch, or 6encoders addons, first is script based, the other are patchs you can tweak.

[ZOUKOUPOMME]

Hi
I just had " USINE 5.25" .I have recently a controleur " ohm64 " .I would want that the leds of this last one remains lit(switched on) when I assign them has a button " play "or" lapel(backhand,lapels) " for exemply. I have to try to follow advise(recommend) them " to pilot external devices " of your wiki doku, but without resultat.
Have-you a solution has my probleme?
I thank you for it beforehand.

Bonjour
Je viens d'aquerrir"usine 5.25".Je possede depuis peu un controleur"ohm64".Je voudrais que les leds de ce dernier restent allumée quand je les assignent a un bouton "play" ou "revers"par exemple.J'ai essayer de suivre les conseilles dans"piloter des appareils externes"de votre wiki doku,mais sans resultat.
Auriez- vous une solution a mon probleme?
Je vous en remercie d'avance.

[nay-seven]

hello and welcome zoukoupomme !

first , maybe better to open a new thread for this, this way could be useful and easiest to find for others omh64 users..?

now , i need some precision to help you :
_first, buttons on the ohm64 are in toggle mode? , i mean without Usine you can have on/off position yet..?
_then in Usine you can use midi learn on your switch , then right click and choose remote mode toggle
_now if you want remote this usine switch to your ohm64 , right click on this switch /find in remote panel and activate the remote button
_you must have select your omh64 as midi out in your global setup/midi out and activate also the remote function here..

tell me..

[ZOUKOUPOMME]

Hello nay-seven!Thanks!

- for the buttons of "ohm64" I have the choice between: "note" or " control " but not toogle
- for "usine" I chose " toogle mode"
- I have make reglages in " global setup " .
But her(it) that does not work.

[nay-seven]

i've create a new thread for this discussion about ohm64...