two patchs I'd like to share

tanabarbier · Unread post by **tanabarbier** » 08 Apr 2011, 21:54

Hi everybody !
Here are two patchs I'd like to share, after a few months of having fun with Usine. I don't know if it will be of any interest for anyone, but here they are !
So the first one is a kind of automatic random micro montage patch.
A fader controls the size of the sounds parts it will play, and a knob controls the width of the pan random distribution.
=> http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... ontage.zip

And the second, using ball attraction and repulsion, the balls are allways in movement, and I use coordinates (is it the right word ?) and energy to make pan and volume evoluate. And there is some freeze stuff when the balls hit a wall.
=> http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... 0balls.zip

I'm shure there is a lot to do to improve these patchs, so I submit them to you guys !

Thanks !

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 08 Apr 2011, 22:58

Cool, the patches sound interesting thanks for sharing. I will definitely be having a play with these

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 08 Apr 2011, 23:01

agree !
really cool result with the balls one, love this micro sounds
thanks to share tanabarbier !

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 08 Apr 2011, 23:38

Good work

i will used it sure

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 09 Apr 2011, 01:15

Hello Tanabardier,

Very nice patchs ! with a very personal approach and the most important thing for me... They sounds very nice !

The question of "micro sounds" in Usine is not easy and for the moment the "grain engine" of Senso win !

But your patch is really interesting one, congrat.

The question of physical model in Usine is a very nice way to explore new sounds, and your usage of attraction/ repulsion are fresh.

More about, the usage of physic model in Usine soon...

I work on this question, fortunately with the help of Senso.

Best

tanabarbier · Unread post by **tanabarbier** » 09 Apr 2011, 01:50

Thanks for trying those patches and giving me feedbacks !

I like the grain engine too, but this one was for me more like an atempt to do something that changes with the time, and more like trying to reproduce something between montage and micro-montage like when you spent hours cuting small parts of sound and then puting them together in a DAW.
What I'd like to add to this patch is the possibility to record fader and knob movements and starting and ending position, and see if there is a way to memorize several movements and store them in a preset manager or something.

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 10 Apr 2011, 16:07

Hello,

Here is a proposal to go to the idea of "micromontage"

_ With bank of sounds (Simply drag and drop sounds)
_ Adjustments for grain shape
_ Nb Grain (From 1 to

_ Random Pitchs (for each grains)
_ Preset manager

http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... ontage.zip

Best

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 10 Apr 2011, 17:59

really great one Hervé !
with this 3 tools we have a really great start for a live performance !
thanks guys !

if someone else want to join ( or even if not ) you could built a collaborative microsounds addon ..?

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 11 Apr 2011, 07:39

Thanks Nay,

But,

I did not do much, the main ideas were already there.

I think we should push even further the reflection on micro sounds . Including in therm of distributions and shapes of grains. The organization and shape of the grain are very important things in the final sonic results.

Many things are improving...

the goal is to find a solution that sounds better than the VST plug-in "KT granulator (for me and many other musicians: the reference)

Maybe in Csound, or with scripts we found new directions.

The good ideas for me is maybe to create an Micro-sounds thread ?

Does this interest anyone else ???

Best

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 11 Apr 2011, 08:23

you're right, kt granulator is a good reference, i don't know enough about Csound to know if it's a good tool for this.
Maybe we can first find and regroup some theory documents about granularity..?

waiting for this, I've add my little stone, some on/off for each grain, a delay (0/200ms) with manual and synchro random :

Download

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 11 Apr 2011, 09:20

nay-seven wrote:you're right, kt granulator is a good reference, i don't know enough about Csound to know if it's a good tool for this.

I would say Csound is the perfect tool for this based on the Granular Synthesis functions it contains:
http://www.csounds.com/manual/html/SiggenGranular.html

In perticular, take a look at partikkel, which was developed to create all the time-domain varieties of granular synthesis Curtis Roads discusses in his book Microsound:
http://ecmc.rochester.edu/ecmc/docs/cso ... ikkel.html

Also, if I remember correctly in the Microsounds book Curtis Roads actually mentions using Csound to prototype some of his ideas

tanabarbier · Unread post by **tanabarbier** » 12 Apr 2011, 04:13

I just opened the two patches you've done, that's great ! Thanks ! I have to say that I won't be any help because this is going too far for me. I don't use strings and anything else that patching, and allmost only audio... But Im interested in learning, so I'll study your patches !
Yeah KT granulator is a nice toy, but I have to say that with all its defaults I prefer grm shuffling (wich isn't exactly free...). I think that something musicaly interesting can be done with usine, with the same direction.

I keep digging on my side, but I'll be like 2 km behind !

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 18 Apr 2011, 10:46

Hello,

Sorry for the delay of my reaction. (I have many things to prepare at this moment)

Your welcome Tanabarbier. This patch is not a revolutionary one. It use some part of patch method of other great patch of senso and some adaptation of me, and it's only a step to the ideal granular tools, i think it's a long way...

Thanks Caco for the link about CSound but, I'm totally newbie in this language, and i need to learn and study a lot for use the granular function of CSounds.

So...Question: "What do you think is the best way to get started with this language ?"

Programming languages like script sometimes wonder some logic that I put a lot of time to obtain. But perhaps I am a bit limited ...

Generally the thing that works best for me are my ears

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 18 Apr 2011, 10:56

cool stuff in perspective

tanabarbier wrote:What I'd like to add to this patch is the possibility to record fader and knob movements and starting and ending position, and see if there is a way to memorize several movements and store them in a preset manager or something.

it's coming

made a patch that rec up to 16 usine items to up 256 possible instant recallable memory slots, should post a beta tonight or max in the week.
finalising script cleaning and testing but all is finally implemented and working as i wished. all are synced or not synced
free loops mode with circular overdub, few editing options and a random powered by AON of thomas that gives
very interesting results, should be cool with caco Csound module i got to dive into asap got free time.

cool patchs, but i can't open balls one, got a rar pb no?

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 18 Apr 2011, 12:20

Hello 23fx,

I am very excited to hear that !

Best

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 18 Apr 2011, 13:20

multiphone wrote:Thanks Caco for the link about CSound but, I'm totally newbie in this language, and i need to learn and study a lot for use the granular function of CSounds.

So...Question: "What do you think is the best way to get started with this language ?"

Programming languages like script sometimes wonder some logic that I put a lot of time to obtain. But perhaps I am a bit limited ...

Csound is a surprisingly simple language considering it can do so much. If you are interested in learning more about it then start off simple and take a look at the example code on the wiki page and read through nay-seven's tutorial. Once that makes sense then have a look through the FLOSS manual. If you have any questions about c4u then I am happy to help answer them

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 18 Apr 2011, 14:09

@multiphone: yes i hope you'll enjoy . find it quite cool. i waited 7 years for ableton to implement circular recording
to clips and they still don't have , this patch makes me soo happy to quick tweak n rec, that i consider to build my own full usine session view now

so i will got my autom to session, snaphots and all the stuff i want without waiting for nothing.

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 18 Apr 2011, 14:29

@Caco

Thanks for your advices and the approach of Csounds, but i'm not the "Speedy Gonzales" of programing and for me unfortunately, things take time... I do me best. I need to understand how you catch the input audio and some other stuff that for granular approach (For exemple).

@23fx

If my memory is good, i mean Senso implement the circular buffer in Usine in two days and with a smile !! So... forget Ableton live

(That says a great app, With Max for live now and certainly with circular buffer functions)

noise2sine · Unread post by **noise2sine** » 18 Apr 2011, 14:48

Hello,

I have tried Nay version of the patch and i couldn't load my own sample ? How can i make it ???

Cheers

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 18 Apr 2011, 14:59

Hello Noise2sine,

Simply drag and drop audio from your Browser.

Best

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 18 Apr 2011, 15:13

@multiphone yeah. Ableton is ulta limited compared to usine in lot of areas, but they are great combos.
even if faster workflow for basic stuff and M4L for modular, i prefer millions times to stay on usine, and seriously consider slowly do absolutely all in usine, but the only thing i miss in usine is the clip concept of ableton, i mean
the grid mode is really powefull(even more), but it's a bit different. A clip in ableton contains all the midi notes and CVs to control any devive param on the track very quicly, and can be duplicated,moded on the session view grid very quickly too.
so i need to patch my ideal clip concept. my actual patch is a first approach of that, but it concerns only CVs. i would need
to deal with midi notes too..well later..

but where is the little mouse noise2sine? to change sample you can just drag and drop them ! (from browser to wavforms)
edit croospost ;

noise2sine · Unread post by **noise2sine** » 18 Apr 2011, 19:43

Cheers guys !!!

(from the ancient mouse)

capitan mission · Unread post by **capitan mission** » 19 Apr 2011, 07:53

Nice! Im interested in microsound and micro-montage. The Curtis Roads books are amazing.

tanabarbier · Unread post by **tanabarbier** » 19 Apr 2011, 17:34

I re uploaded the balls patch, it seems something went wrong with it at some point.
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... 0balls.zip
The same here I don't know where to start with csound, and for now think I will stick to usine, there is so much to learn for me !
=>23fx23 : yeah I saw posts where you explained your futur addon, I'm excited to see that, thanks in advance !

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 19 Apr 2011, 19:16

there is a beta in addon if ya want tanabarbier

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 19 Apr 2011, 22:53

Here is a very quick example of manipulating Csound's syncgrain opcode using Usine. The Csound code took around five minutes to do and then I just pressed record in usine and randomly twisted its params controlling grain size and density. You can hear the clean drums for the first few seconds before I switch the granulator on.

Csound4Usine Granular Effect Example

If anyone is interested in this sort of effect I can neaten up the csound file and upload an example patch to use it.

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 19 Apr 2011, 23:56

oh yeah would be cool, im total noob but very interested in microloops and grain thing, could be a cool init to csound..
sound very clean and interesting. remind me a reversed track on some beatie boys instru that seemed to have grainy stuff too.
still lack of time but 20 days more of work then can dive into

..

multiphone · Unread post by **multiphone** » 20 Apr 2011, 00:21

Hello Caco,

Yes !

Really nice effect for five minutes coding !

It would be nice to see how that works and maybe explore that... I have to try.

So, i propose a new thread for micro-sound approach, Ok ?

noise2sine · Unread post by **noise2sine** » 20 Apr 2011, 07:17

Hello,

Did someone ever tried Crusher X ? Maybe you can find some interesting ideas there :

http://www.accsone.com/content/blogcate ... g,english/

Cheers.

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 20 Apr 2011, 08:52

Hi,

I'm really interesting by the granular synthesis.

http://sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=2713

The best thing to do with csound is to test the Granular Synthesis and fft iain mcduryit with winxound.

@caco :

It will be cool to have some examples of granular with buffer or record disk.

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two patchs I'd like to share

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