Blogpost about "Ableton speaks with Usine" (Virtual Audio Cable)

hesspet · Unread post by **hesspet** » 01 Feb 2014, 23:36

Hello,

a rainy day here and I made some experiments to get an audio interfacing between Usine and Ableton.

I works.
Not perfect, needs some tuning, but an overall latency of 30 ms is a good base to make some improvements in my setup.

Read more about it here: http://journeytounknownsoundscapes.blogspot.de/2014/02/controllerism-ableton-speaks-with-usine.html

Until we get back the VST feature of Usine, this is a solution which works with a acceptable performance.

I'll download the newest version of Usine and make the tests again, cause I found out that here are some small timing issues in the Midi Clock processing.

Peter

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 01 Feb 2014, 23:55

cool !

and what about a rewire solution..?

hesspet · Unread post by **hesspet** » 02 Feb 2014, 01:04

Usine as Rewire Master?

I don't know how to do that. I never worked with rewire. I know that Revire is supported by Ableton and that there is a VST Slave avaliable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rewire is not supported native by Usine?

Peter (does not know everything

)

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 02 Feb 2014, 09:58

yes, you're right but it's maybe on the road map...

hesspet · Unread post by **hesspet** » 02 Feb 2014, 11:53

Then a dream come true!

Meanwhile, my postet soulution helps me out for a while. I tested it again tonight with the newest version of Usine. Due to the improved MIDI I can get a latency between punch on the Machine in correlation to the Bassliner is < 20 ms. Which is perfect for me. But there is a project risk: There are many components to organise. So a rewire connection would bring a much saver setup.

So thumbs up for Rewire on the road map

BTW: Would it be possible to have an indicator that an external sync is running? A patch with an output: "Synched to external" or in sync. That would be helpful to control the running environment.

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 02 Feb 2014, 16:25

Hi hesspet. Yes I agree a Rewire on the roadmap would be a blessing...I'd rather spend my time within HollyHock rather than outside connecting to other applications

Regarding an indicator for External Sync, aren't you specifying that you are receiving from a specific MIDI bus?
If so could you receive the sysex or midi and throw up a indicator that time is being received.
Regarding HollyHock's setting whether to sync to it or not...that would be a good Input/output to implement directly into the MIDI module as well. Then a patch can allow the user to directly determine if they want to sync time from the interface, rather than purely through the settings in hollyhock.

grainular · Unread post by **grainular** » 02 Feb 2014, 18:10

You might look at Jack. http://jackaudio.org/ It's inter-app audio latency can be set pretty low. Not sure about Jack time code/midi in Windows, pretty sure it has it for the OSX version.

hesspet · Unread post by **hesspet** » 02 Feb 2014, 19:11

@grainular
Jack sucks on Windows. I made some experiments with Jack and I failed. I use Jack on some of my Linux machines. Works well, but on
Windows it't the gate to hell

@sephult
Yes I could do that, sure. But I would like to see it e.g. in the device indicator. So if "sync" is an integrated function of a device in the new Holyhock version, it would be nice, Usine shows a "'I'm working on sync indicator" This can't be managed by a patch. Cause only Usine "itself" has knowledge about it's internal states. Only a nice to have and helpful to detect problems on stage 2 minutes before the show

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 03 Feb 2014, 12:42

I had JACK working on OS X redirecting Usine audio to Studio One (which supposedly doesn't support JACK but I got it working anyway). This was because the recorded output in Usine was terribly aliased, garbled, and just plain messed up. This was probably fixed a long time ago.

Even so it is a nice solution, I didn't want to make a big announcement about it though as it gets around one of the limitations of the free version.

That said it just felt nicer and more comprehensive than Usine's current bounce to disk functionality. I'm going to try it with the new Tracktion very soon now.

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 08 Feb 2014, 21:17

Some plugin options to also try.. Elevayta Stream Boy, (not free) I haven't tried but maybe a good solution? Energy XT ReWire VST (not free), Just tried with Usine 5, works to stream audio from rewire slave into Usine. Maybe useful for something?
Also just for a more fluid recording experience, HGS Wav Recorder VST is free and works well. Also Silverspike Tapeit 1 (free), and Tapeit 2 (not free) which allows simultaneous control of all instances which could work well for multitrack recordings from any specific insert points within a patch..

Edit: Also just noticed, as a VST in Usine, Plogue Bidule's audio recorder might be a decent option for multitrack "no fuss" capture. Will investigate further. Hadn't explored Bidule in some time.. Still running a 2011 build, lol.

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 09 Feb 2014, 16:47

@gurulogic,

Thank you for enumerating these recording options. I hadn't thought to look to VST solutions.

I've been thinking about it and the reason it felt more 'natural' to be recording into tracks in S1 is that a Usine workspace can become a galaxy of instruments, and I'm used to recording instruments in a linear DAW. The grid is an awesome sequencing solution which I have yet to really dive into, but I'd still like to have it all bounced down into a linear project for mixing and further exploration.

Regarding ReWire support in Usine, will we be able to create new ReWire inputs/outputs on the fly for streaming to/from a separate sequencer?

grainular · Unread post by **grainular** » 10 Feb 2014, 19:42

@hesspet - too bad about your experience with Jack on Windows. I've gotten good results with Jack/Win, but I remember I had to fiddle with the settings in Jack to get everything working well. A bit of a hassle. Certainly not plug and play.

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 10 Feb 2014, 21:21

By the way, I only just now realized the true potential of the bounce to disk. I don't know if my earlier problems were a program error or my own fault, but they don't repeat themselves. And bouncing racks as well as outputs should have been obvious but now that I've discovered it I really have everything I need.

Once again a night where Usine teaches me a new thing or two.

gthibert · Unread post by **gthibert** » 11 Feb 2014, 02:33

I just used Usine, Ableton Live and Reaper together on the same machine with an SSL MX4 MADI audiocard (the driver is multiclient). It was 100% stable, with a realy low latency (64 samples). Audio was routed from Ableton Live to Usine for surround panning and effects (12.2). Live singer microphones were live monitored in Live, with effects and sends, and then sent to Usine.

I used Reaper at the same time to make a 24 multitrack recording.

I used this kit for two weeks in rehearsal and then in shows without any problems or glitches whatsoever.

I was damned impressed by SSL MX4 and the modular software mixer that comes with it and allow almost any routing imaginable.

I can give more info on my software and hardware setup if you're interested!

A little link to the project page (audio is coming soon) :
http://cemproduction.com/productions/femme-aimee

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 11 Feb 2014, 08:49

gthibert wrote:I just used Usine, Ableton Live and Reaper together on the same machine with an SSL MX4 MADI audiocard (the driver is multiclient).

Yes, hardware routing between applications is ideal in many scenarios. The RME DSP Mixer is also usefull in this regard (Mutiface II + D/A A/D ADAT interface) , however, either I have yet to learn how to use it properly or I am limited for inter-application routing as I am using most of my I/o for hardware interfacing. Will have to find a chance to have a more in depth look at this.

Blaakk · Unread post by **Blaakk** » 23 May 2014, 15:10

ceasless wrote:The grid is an awesome sequencing solution which I have yet to really dive into....

Not sure why I left rack exploration until now. Considering its the about the first thing touched upon in the documentation. It's genius. It's makes more sense than the linear way. Thank you Senso.

I wonder how deep one could dive?

Blaakk · Unread post by **Blaakk** » 23 May 2014, 15:11

+1 for RME TotalMix.

seamus · Unread post by **seamus** » 31 Jul 2014, 10:28

I use 2 computers. Both have rme interfaces and go Usine into ableton. Seems to work as long as all buffer settings are quite low there ends up with very little latency. But ableton would be nice to have tight rewire sync with. !

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 31 Jul 2014, 11:11

I dream of the day when computers just do what it seems like they should be able to. Always so many little quirks whatever the OS. Maybe Usine should become an operating system, just for audio & MIDI and no resources spent on processes that have no relevance beyond utilizing the available hardware for media production. I realize I am asking a lot

iococoi · Unread post by **iococoi** » 26 Aug 2014, 16:41

i stumbled over this the other day..

http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/index.htm
http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Vo ... /index.htm

and other apps dealing with virtual audio..donationware, made in france

creepjoint · Unread post by **creepjoint** » 30 Aug 2014, 12:57

Blaakk wrote:+1 for RME TotalMix.

+2

Also creamware (soniccore) soundcards, even more intuitive with the visual modular interface.

I have to scratch my head for 5 minutes before setting up software rerouting with the RME.

Much more favourable using these solutions to high latency software "cables" which are shite for live situations.

gwennaelle · Unread post by **gwennaelle** » 12 Nov 2014, 14:15

nay-seven wrote:yes, you're right but it's maybe on the road map...

Hello
I'd like to put Usine in rewire i, Ableton Live.
Is it now possible?
How?
Thank you.
Gw.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 22 Nov 2014, 11:14

No, not actually possible,
We don't dismiss the question, but it will not be possible for the version 2 coming

mikebosch · Unread post by **mikebosch** » 13 Jan 2015, 17:52

I was using the latest beta version of Usine yesterday and followed the instructions in this link:

http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki2/doku.ph ... pplication

I set usine to receive the midi clock from Ableton and I was amazed of how solid the sync was. I made a comparison with Audiomulch (which I also bought a while ago) and where Audiomulch was constantly struggling to follow Ableton's clock, Usine was spot on and took only a second to get back ion sync with the clock from Ableton.

The sync was actually perfect. Today I will do some more tests with several plugins, instruments, etc. loaded up and see how this goes.

Oh by the way I did this on a Macbook Pro late 2012 with 16gb ram and 500gb HD. Also I didn't use the IAC bus, but ipMIDI, which can be downloaded for free (just google it).

Mike Bosch

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 18 Jan 2015, 10:19

Any news on whether 2.0 will have any features that make this unnecessary? I'm just curious about whether I should invest in one of these softwares or not.

Unread post by **oli_lab** » 19 Jan 2015, 19:06

reastream is a vst plugin from cockoos (you know, REAPER, the best DAW...)

you can load an instance of reastream in each software and you can send and receive midi and multiaudio.
the 2 softwares don't need to be on the same computer either, you can stream on a network easy !

search no more or nowhere else : it is free and "solid"

32 and 64 bit

http://www.reaper.fm/reaplugs/

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 19 Jan 2015, 22:16

Hey Oli!

I tried using reastream however had complications using. I was using multiple computers, and different DAW which clocked but just drifted over time.

Giv Sync Master - from Moon Safari in the addons section had a great patch that actually helped me get on track better with Sync issues.
It has a variable BPM calculation that shifts back and forth centered around the incoming clock, but does not drift over time.

I did modify his script with an alignment "fudge-factor". This helps keep the latency between the two applications dead-on.
It works very well, and I use an input and scope to align the other audio source up to find the offset between the two.
Once aligned it's almost a dead-on calibration and seems to stay really close.

Hopefully in awhile Ill upload my modification to the add-ons to share, but at the moment I need to make some tweaks.

-S

mikebosch · Unread post by **mikebosch** » 22 Jan 2015, 16:40

@ ceasless

As far as I know from the beta, it hasn't got any rewire implemented yet, but to be honest I would not need to use rewire at the moment. My previous post will explain all about syncing Ableton and Usine Hollyhock. What I forgot to mention is that with Ableton as the master it also send the transport control by midi and Usine will start and stop as soon as you start or stop Ableton.

donkeyharejoe · Unread post by **donkeyharejoe** » 07 Feb 2015, 16:06

Hi,
I downloaded Usine this week, looks like a really nice and usable piece of software. But...
It would be great if I could have the audio talk with other apps e.g. Sooperlooper & Ableton,
but unfortunately Usine doesn't work with JackOSX.
This is about the only A/V-soft I encountered that doesn't work with Jack.
Is this on a to do list? or can I do something to get it on a 'fixlist'?

Johan
MacOS10.6.8 & 10.9.5

gwennaelle · Unread post by **gwennaelle** » 18 Feb 2015, 15:05

Hello,
If it's not possible yet to introduce Usine in rewire in Ableton, I have red that there would be a VST version of Usine, called Usine VST or Easine VST (I don't know the difference). Where can I find it ?
Thank you
Gw.

gwennaelle · Unread post by **gwennaelle** » 26 Feb 2016, 12:50

gurulogic wrote:
gthibert wrote:I just used Usine, Ableton Live and Reaper together on the same machine with an SSL MX4 MADI audiocard (the driver is multiclient).
Yes, hardware routing between applications is ideal in many scenarios. The RME DSP Mixer is also usefull in this regard (Mutiface II + D/A A/D ADAT interface) , however, either I have yet to learn how to use it properly or I am limited for inter-application routing as I am using most of my I/o for hardware interfacing. Will have to find a chance to have a more in depth look at this.

Hello
You wrote this a long time ago, but I have questions about RME, the routing in order to connect Usine and Ableton Live.
Until now, I used Output Adat 5-6 from Usine to enter in Ableton, and Output Adat 3-4 from Ableton to enter in Usine.
It' was ok. The problem was just that I wanted an Output more from Usine to Ableton, and with Adat 7-8 or Adat Spdif 1-2, nothing happened. Would you know why? and how to do?
The other problem today is that now the RME doesn't communicate anymore by Adat. I should replace this way by the analogic I/O (which are not always free). Would you know this problem and how to do?
Thank you so much
Gwennaelle

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