My approach for using Reaper as 32/64bit bridge + external filter bank

[magickz]

I had the problem of using all my VST plugins in Usine as some of them are 64bit versions, and some are only 32bit versions. I tried something with Bidule, but not successfully. Then I found a forum post that suggested using JBridge - also does not work for me without any complications. But, using VSTforx and Reaper it seems to work not too bad - though it could be more convenient. Reaper seems to be one of the most stable hosts for all kind of VST plugins that I ever tried. Most important: you can use 64 bit and 32 bit versions all together.

If you are interested, try this:

1. In Usine I load the Remote Channel Sender plugin from VSTforx into the rack that I want to manipulate (for example with a 32 bit filter plugin).



2. In Reaper I load the VSTforx plugin and assign the Remote Channel Receiver to it's output. In the same chain I add my filter plugin. The third plugin in this chain is another Remote Channel Sender plugin.



3. Back in Usine I need another VSTforx plugin to receive the Remote Channel from Reaper and redirect it to the rack output.

4. Now, in Reaper the master volume can be muted. The sound is now being generated in Usine, filtered in Reaper and sent from Usine to the connected audio interface.

Further info: www.reaper.fm, www.vstforx.de, http://www.vstforx.de/index.php/product ... otechannel

[caco]

An interesting approach, how's the latency?

[magickz]

Hi Caco, I cannot say much about latency. I would not even know how to measure it. But, maybe you can tell me the trick.

[magickz]

Another important aspect is, that I only used the 64 bit versions of the vstforx and remote channel sender plugins; and Usine as well as Reaper in their 64 bit versions. If I am not wrong that's technically not possible to connect vstforx 32 bit to the 64 bit sender and vice versa.

[seamus]

Jbridge works fine for me with the only problem being that the GUI doesn't load on the jbridged plugin on the first try. I must show the vst a second time to see the GUI. I do have a problem with möbius. A workspace with a jbridged möbius will crash on closing the workspace.
I noticed I do not have these problems with ableton

[magickz]

hm... it seems this looping thing could be interesting for me

I have found some other plugins with some interface issues. For example there is a great addon by Graywolf, developer of BlueArp, that allows me to control every aspect of my Nova hardware synthesizer ( http://www.graywolf2004.net/my-projects ... ntrol-vst/ ), and save my patches for later reuse on my PC. It is made with Synthmaker. And it seems not to be able to turn the knobs in the interface. But, basically it works if I create my own knobs in a patch that replaces all the builtin knobs. But, to be honest, I am too lazy to recreate an already good interface with hundreds of knobs and buttons. And I do not understand how to trigger the dialogue for saving and loading those patches created in the Nova Control VST. I wouldn't agree with other users who think that generally all Synthmaker or all Synthedit or Whatever plugins are not good, as some of them provide exactly the functionality that I need, and that you cannot find somewhere else.

That is why I am still looking at solutions like virtual midi cables, ReWire, and this one above. Usine is almost perfect, and I guess Usine paired with a robust host that can bridge and handle everything will be my dream team. I just worry about CPU and memory resources on my PC.

[Blaakk]

The 64/32 bit non-segregation was one of my favorite Reaper features, but I didn't know it. Assumed everything else would work in a similar way.

J-Bridge was/is satisfactory for myself, but there is that UI glitch. Ohhhhh if I remember correctly.... Reaper handles the .fxp files well. Mmmm.... Didn't think I'd ever use Reaper again, but I'm dying to mess with some python/JS stuff, and more, with these new found eyes. Cheers magickz!

Shit, and that reminds me seamus... should probably give mobius another shot. I get the impression Mobius is looper-king. Is it? Well after the Juicy Duo at least.....

[seamus]

Those loopers look damn sexy. i guess thats a very pretty shell you made for the Echoloop vst. I would love to see what you did on the inside. Any chance of sharing it?

[Blaakk]

I'm very warmed by your complimentary appreciation of the Juicy Brothers.

They're just modded RC-51s. The loop type selectors don't really work. And I really need a pan pot on each slot. And a good hold of each waveform's set of markers, and their positions. And it lacking solidity. And they need some more of their juice back..... three quarters into it, I went touchscreen, so they went a bit 'Transformery', due to BIG mutes and gains. A little more 'Usine Pro' than 'HH'.

Here ya go.... >>rEd<<
et >>bLu<<

Colours are the only differences.

I'm scrapping these and starting over. Oh, the Echoloop vst. Decent, but..... just a little lacking in Xylitol, or even the not-so-nice sweeteners.

[seamus]

i will try these out when i have a moment! you are a quick study with hollyhock. I am most impressed!!

[seamus]

Wow these loopers work quite well! I now am convinced of the power of a hollyhock looper! I will write more with specifics and some features I would like to try to implement. I'm curious why you are rebuilding other than pan what features are u looking to have that are not there? I will try to study the design and see if I can make the juicy looper work for my needs. Thanks for sharing. I will also start a new thread so as not to hijack this one. Thanks Blakk!

[seamus]

I did notice that the loop type selectors don't work. I would like to be able to sometimes overdub in one loop like a more traditional looper. Now each new loop goes to a new looper but I'm sure it must be possible. When sync is off are the loopers in sync with each other? It seemed that way. I will test more. Sync is for sync to host bpm and counter I assume. I had no trouble running a loop that was synced to the bpm and overdubbing to that to keep things in time. The loops held nicely.

[magickz]

Seamus, I just saw on the KVR developer challenge website there is also a new candidate for you: http://www.kvraudio.com/product/regen-by-tonecarver

[magickz]

It seems I continue having some glitches with the interfaces of some 32 bit plugins. For example yesterday I purchased the two amazing plugins DIZZTROY and REPEAT X from Z3 audiolabs. From time to time I can use the knobs, suddenly it stops responding to my mouse input.

http://www.z3-audiolabs.com/repeat-x/

crazy demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mznp9zmaQC0

http://www.z3-audiolabs.com/dizztroy/

demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsufSRhKcAo



Now I am really in trouble... I would like to use the 32 bit version, but some plugins are just not available for 32 bit, others are not available in 64 bit... Time to reorganize again for a second time, before I can start playing...

[seamus]

magickz i tried it out. It could be promising as it is a pleasing interface and sync is tight. maybe not over a whole tune but for long enough to keep me interested it was syncing. Some features are trying to make it in future updates.The most notably proper crossfades to avoid clicking. Second syncing the various loops with each other when not using host sync seems not implemented. it has great potential i will keep an eye on it. Although a hollyhock looper is an almost more tantalizing option. I admit a lust for repeating my mistakes. Call me loopy. Once you witness the awesome power that is Beardyman and his looper setup you are forever...

[magickz]

Hey Loopy. I am sorry, I have no experience at all... and now I read about the clicking and synching for the first time. I thought the Mobius documentation looks so complex. Maybe out of my laziness I should use Regen to get a first idea about the technique of looping.

Very Cool. Initially I only wanted to learn the piano or something... But it seems a few months later after the intial idea I will know all about programming synths, sampling and production tools, EQing and compressing and such things, and still nothing about making music... maybe I should finally start learning to play an instrument or to sing to have something to loop But then again meeting Usine, I believe it would be more fun to build an own instrument with it and learn to play it before I learn from the theory why it sounds good or bad Let's see...


Yes, I agree Mr. Beardyman is just brilliant. I have seen something from him just a few weeks before when I was just surfing for something about looping. And I just watched another video of him, now focussing more on his setup. And it seems to be very user friendly and seems to provide a good overview with so many touch screens involved. He is really an admirable artist. And I love his humor

[seamus]

Beardyman at work with his custom software and 4 iPads.

[Blaakk]

Yes. The 'Regen' VST seems decent. Had a little play around with it t'other day.

+1 for Beardyman. I've watched him for a few years now (well, since his 'mixing' youtube video). Fricking awesome. Seen him live once, but it was poor unfortunately due to enforced low volume levels. His work methods are a very big influence on the building of my current setup. It's kinda like his, but with Leap Motion Control, edrum kit, guitar, and bass (but with less iPads and beatboxing skills). I've really gotta get some examples up for you guys!!! Hehe, I love doing the 'silly hi voice loopy song' type thing, which Beardyman surely must have invented.

I began setting up Mobius again. Hopefully I'll have more luck this time. :/

More gabba!

[magickz]

Blaakk, if you are still interested in this, I want to let you know that I believe the ReaStream plugin that I just discovered could be a much more simple (and free) solution... but not sure yet. I asked in the Reaper forum for some better instructions how it can be used, and about how to measure latency for the case that it works. I assume that it could be even more powerful than ReWire, and that it could be even useful to connect an Usine 32 bit instance to a 64 bit instance running at the same time on one machine. Will tell you later about what I find out.

Edit, 28. August 2014: After my first tests I am just amazed about this thing...

Just for fun I used it to connect two Usine instances (one 64 bit and one 32 bit version) together with another DAW, all running on the same PC. Assumed that it has a low latency such as theVSTforx (described in the next post below) and does not kill my CPU to run so many daws at the same time, I think this is the easiest and most elegant solution that I found so far. Makes it possible to connect multiple racks in two systems with several tracks in the other DAW into all possible directions within 10 seconds And the best is in my opinion that it integrates multiple audio streams and a midi stream at the same time (no need for Loopbe or something similar). You just load it as a plugin, without the necessity to configure some midi port or something in the Usine software configuration. It can be used in networks as well (by connecting to an IP address). But I use it just on "localhost". For me there is no audible latency, but I am still waiting for a concrete technical information from the Reaper community (will report further insights here)...

In Usine it looks like this:



Sender and receiver must have a matching unique identifier.

The output parameter "latency" seems to constantly ouput "0.00000 samples" today - I have no idea about it's function.

:rolleyes: I guess one could even use this along with two Usine instances (for example 32 and 64 bit) to have two interface builders available and of course the advantage of using 64 bit and 32 bit plugins the same time without leaving Usine.

[magickz]

@Caco: According to the VSTforx developer, the latency is around 1 block size or buffer size.

Furthermore he explains, if the sequencers are running for example with 44100 hz and a buffer size of 512, the signal needs 512 Samples (ca. 0.01 ms) to arrive at the receiver.

Is this information sufficient? (I hope I translate it correct)