limitations of hollyhock 2 "free"

sm_jamieson · Unread post by **sm_jamieson** » 25 Mar 2015, 14:11

With Hollyhock 1 "free" (i.e. without registering or a license key), among other limitations, you are only allowed 4 racks. I tried Hollyhock 2 and I could add more than 4 racks. Is there a list of the limitations of the free (i.e. as downloaded) version ?
Thanks,
Simon.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 25 Mar 2015, 14:28

Usine is not free, as said is the nag screen you see, for example when you load a workspace

sm_jamieson · Unread post by **sm_jamieson** » 25 Mar 2015, 14:53

I have been playing with Hollyhock 1 and now 2, but I am unsure whether to pay for it or not, if the "as downloaded" version does what I require.
What are other people's thoughts on this ?
Simon.

ahs · Unread post by **ahs** » 25 Mar 2015, 14:57

i am going to buy a copy because it is good

sm_jamieson · Unread post by **sm_jamieson** » 25 Mar 2015, 15:26

Question wrote:Hollyhock II is not "free"

That could start a long and philosophical discussion.

Question · Unread post by **Question** » 25 Mar 2015, 16:44

It is clearly stated on the nag secreen which appears each time the unregistered HH II is started.
And the opposite is never mentioned anywhere as far as I know. I wonder where this "hollyhock 2 "free"" idea came from : )

sm_jamieson · Unread post by **sm_jamieson** » 25 Mar 2015, 17:27

The idea came from HH1 !

"Usine Free" was on the website downloads as a zip "Usine Hollyhock Free Win32 upd11 1.1.0009q.zip".
It was what I downloaded. It has no nag screen but limits on racks, no OSC, etc.

The current "buy" page says
Upgrade
Upgrade Usine pro from any version (except Usine Free) for 49€

If HH2 is not being distributed that way, no problem. But that is where the idea came from

Simon.

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 26 Mar 2015, 06:04

So you are just asking if there is to be a cut-down "Free", or "Demo" version of Hollyhock II?

So HH2 does do things different, and yes it requires an activation now.
I believe the download is fully functional, which allows people to "Demo" the real thing, but needs activation.
If I recall correctly it will disable after so many days inactivated too.

As far as a "Free" version, I don't think I would expect it. It seems like they did the right thing for the best. (Maybe not your situation though)

If you are asking why there is not a "Free" version.....well...
My assumptions are that the changes are to prevent having to make multiple builds of software and introduce inconsistencies.
Already the team supports an x86, x64, and MAC build, let alone having another "Free" or "Demo" version build. I am personally very surprised they even keep up on the x86!

Coming from a really heavy integration and software background myself, in some projects we had this same issue of too many different builds to maintain.
The key is to reduce all the different builds you have to make..... as the more you make...the more testing there is.. and the higher probability to have bugs and inconsistencies between builds is present. This is why I personally think this would make more sense not to have an extra cut-down "Free" version.

In my personal and professional opinion,
You should really pay for such a great software from such a small and dedicated team.
I have worked with some big teams before (and purchased big name software), and I have to say that I have never seen anyone come close to the responsiveness, feedback, and requests as I have seen through sensomusic. This is my honest professional opinion.

Their work really is amazing. That is just stating their work and not the end product software...which I can tell you I have not seen anything come close to.
Beyond the software there is a strong community and that is a lot of what makes Hollyhock so great, a lot...I mean a lot of feedback and requests, and dedication have really shaped this software...and they do listen and respond. We all do.

There are some requests already implemented per some of our forum discussions, I don't know any big software company that can provide you that in under a year.
You paying for this hard work helps us all keep afloat...I plan on sailing:)

-S

Question · Unread post by **Question** » 26 Mar 2015, 10:48

sephult wrote:... Their work really is amazing. That is just stating their work and not the end product software...which I can tell you I have not seen anything come close to. ...

-S

So very true : ) I've asked for support about an issue yesterday, and today it is implemented in the latest release.

Undoubtedly, they deserve support from the users.

Q

futRshokR · Unread post by **futRshokR** » 06 Apr 2015, 05:37

So, I have a question about the "Demo" of the download. I read that one must register with Sensomatic, and then use their log in info to activate the demo capabilities of the download. is this true? Will the download actually allow to be demoed?

What I am experiencing is that after I download and install the software, upon first launch I see the logo splash dialog prompting me to choose the default language. I selected English. After that nothing more happens except that Usine Hollyhock sucks down 99-100% of my CPU and never launches. I can't get to any registration or activation screen.

I have tried on both my 2010 MacBook 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo 4 G RAM, and my iMac 3 GHz Core 2 Duo 4 G RAM. Are these systems capable of running the software?

Also of note: On the MacBook, in the splash dialog that prompts for default language selection, the words "English" and "Francais" do not appear in the selection buttons.

Do I need to purchase the software before it will launch? With no demo possibility?

secretkillerofnames · Unread post by **secretkillerofnames** » 06 Apr 2015, 07:15

futRshokR wrote:So, I have a question about the "Demo" of the download. I read that one must register with Sensomatic, and then use their log in info to activate the demo capabilities of the download. is this true? Will the download actually allow to be demoed?

What I am experiencing is that after I download and install the software, upon first launch I see the logo splash dialog prompting me to choose the default language. I selected English. After that nothing more happens except that Usine Hollyhock sucks down 99-100% of my CPU and never launches. I can't get to any registration or activation screen.

I have tried on both my 2010 MacBook 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo 4 G RAM, and my iMac 3 GHz Core 2 Duo 4 G RAM. Are these systems capable of running the software?

Also of note: On the MacBook, in the splash dialog that prompts for default language selection, the words "English" and "Francais" do not appear in the selection buttons.

Do I need to purchase the software before it will launch? With no demo possibility?

I don't have a complete answer for you but wanted to check - are you the user who mentioned this problem on Ambient Online?
If not we have at least two people with the same problem.

An unregistered copy of HH2 seems to pop up the nag screen all the time. You should be able to press "OK" instead of "Buy" or "Activate".
The splash dialog issue is a weird one - try repairing disk permissions and reinstalling.

For what it's worth my 2010 MacMini runs Usine HH2 OK though I needed to change the refresh rate to 50ms for a more pleasant experience.
Given how much better my 2013 Macbook Air runs it I think the software seems to benefit greatly from multicores.

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 06 Apr 2015, 11:50

Hi guys!

Unfortunately I do not have a Mac to help and validate...but regarding performance optimization for HH2 and the 50ms refresh rate.
I know that Hollyhock in general even from the first release is also very graphically dependent. Not very many applications have full-featured individual zoom on most components, for which needs a full redraw each time.
From the perspective of a windows user, the requirements were that of DirectX 11 which was quite new within the year or so that HH1 was released. Although I had several above average setups that were pretty great on ram and multi-core, the most beneficial were those who had the Directx11 and better graphics cards along with. Hollyhock does have awesome Multi-thread/multi-core management. Optimizing your hardware setup for these two things will make sure your good to go.

As far as Mac I am not sure how the specs are or any of that (if I had one I'd probably keep up with the tech better). So when looking into performance, remember balance of these two is always the key...regardless of platform. Just a quick note

-S

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 06 Apr 2015, 14:06

@futRshokR

Yes, Usine is not free, you can test freely all possibilities, but you need to buy a license to activate it.

the 2 configuration you mention can run Usine without problems.

About your strange language issue, you're the first who mention this, can you please create a ticket for this ?

secretkillerofnames · Unread post by **secretkillerofnames** » 06 Apr 2015, 14:13

sephult wrote:Hi guys!

From the perspective of a windows user, the requirements were that of DirectX 11 which was quite new within the year or so that HH1 was released. Although I had several above average setups that were pretty great on ram and multi-core, the most beneficial were those who had the Directx11 and better graphics cards along with. Hollyhock does have awesome Multi-thread/multi-core management. Optimizing your hardware setup for these two things will make sure your good to go.

-S

FWIW my Macbook Air has an Intel HD 5000 integrated graphics card and an i5-4250U. It's low spec but with an SSD runs pretty well.
Of course most of my HH2 work is happening on a Windows 8.1 machine my father gave me because he couldn't stand Windows 8.

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 06 Apr 2015, 15:03

Awesome secretkillerofnames!

I like it that soo many people hate Win8, I actually love it and it's one of the best Windows releases. Just means more for us...lol
Nice job on inheriting a decent laptop, just checked out and seems to have some pretty impressive specs for a Windows laptop.
I am used to having downgraded inheritance...hahaha

I have a similar spec on my Samsung AIO7 to your MAC but running Intel HD4000.
On my main studio computer, I had an older GTX275 card which still rocks... it just was on the brink of the DX10/DX11 releases so I had some issues with it at the time of HH1 release.
Since then I updated with an additional GTX750Ti which I run several monitors with HH2, and I use the older card to supplement additional software and video.

Yes SSD makes a huge difference.. for 27 years of computing experience...SSD has been the biggest exponential boost I have seen in upgrading a computer.
I always thought that $750 - 50Mb harddrive was going to be the biggest leap...hahaha

I am thinking about finding a hackintosh setup, or doing something of that sorts. I would like to have a MAC solely though to work with others in HH2...but I cannot really justify.
I would rather buy synthesizers and developmental hardware to integrate

-S

futRshokR · Unread post by **futRshokR** » 06 Apr 2015, 18:31

Thanks to all for your suggestions!
@secretkillerofnames: Yes, I am the person that mentioned this problem on Ambient Online forum. I took your advice and used Disk Utilities to Repair my HD. It didn't seem to find any problems and indicated that all appeared OK. Also made no difference in launching Usine. So I deleted Usine, downloaded again, and reinstalled. Still had the same problem, but at least the words appeared in the language prompt dialog.
So I tried turning off my antivirus (Sophos) and turned off the firewall in the MacBook. One of these actions worked! I was able to launch and run Usine. Restored firewall and virus protection and it will still launch.

I want to thank you all again for your suggestions!

FWIW: I'm not up on graphics cards at all, but this MacBook has the Nvidia GeForce 9400M 256 MB graphics card. If that helps anyone at all...

secretkillerofnames · Unread post by **secretkillerofnames** » 07 Apr 2015, 02:33

sephult wrote:I would rather buy synthesizers and developmental hardware to integrate

-S

It's way more fun that is for sure.

Currently thinking about a Leap Motion for HH2.

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 07 Apr 2015, 04:38

Do the Leap Motion is quite fun and a decent price, probably one of the best tools per price ratio you can get.
That and maybe the Wii controller, I need to get a new Bluetooth dongle so I can work with as well. I started to on another computer...but limited integration.
There is a really cool performance batkam just posted here where using the wii controller and dance
wii performance - batkam

As far as the Leap Motion
Just built up a script for detecting which hand is being used, hopefully get some more work in on it soon.
There are a lot of good Library patches already to play with and build from too. Very inspirational work from the sensomusic team

-S

secretkillerofnames · Unread post by **secretkillerofnames** » 07 Apr 2015, 08:14

sephult wrote:As far as the Leap Motion
Just built up a script for detecting which hand is being used, hopefully get some more work in on it soon.
There are a lot of good Library patches already to play with and build from too. Very inspirational work from the sensomusic team

-S

I've seen official sensomusic YouTube video - keen to see what further possibilities there are. Maybe one hand on a keyboard controller and the other processing audio.
Can we assign x y z values at the finger level now?

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 07 Apr 2015, 12:24

Regarding the cost of a Mac..

For a long time I wrote off all the reports of Macs just being "better" in audio.

I can say that my experience so far has validated that assertion 100%. Windows is a pile of pain next to OS X. Everything from switching my audio interface on/off (which _must_ be done before anything connected to the interface is turned on/off/connected via patchbay).. In Windows I would usually have to restart the whole computer when this happened.

Being able to painlessly switch the output of the main OS audio without impacting an application, is amazing. Being able to have multiple applications reading/writing on a single MIDI I/O (for instance using prodatum to control my XL-1 while also sending notes from a DAW) is priceless. In Windows I cannot remember this ever working, would have to reach for loopMIDI which did not always work as expected either.

All in all, it's the difference for me of running a machine which always felt like it was coming apart at the seams versus something that feels designed to handle what I am asking it to do. I do not think a hackintosh will be able to provide you with something similar -- it will be fiddly, for sure.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. I always avoided proprietary OSes (Windwos and OS X both) until I finally had money to buy some decent music software. OS X is by far my favorite OS (well, if only BeOS were still around...).

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 07 Apr 2015, 14:40

Hi ceaseless!

On Windows here I do not have any of those issues you are reporting, maybe with old OS versions and older drivers I could say that might be the case, but in 10 years I have not really had those issues. I can see your point of view, but I would not agree one is better than the other as far as terms of OS. I guess it just depends on the the type of computer user.
I have always been the dig down-deep, get in trouble type, and I love to design stable computers. I've actually had two main studio computers in the last 15 years, my last one was a motherboard failure after 7 years, this one much more solid (and specifically spec'd with MB lifetime warranty now...lol)..This one is still rocking and comparable to current newer technology.

When you are talking hardware, yes the advantage is you do not have to worry about the design or spec of hardware much in addition when you have a MAC.
Also it's much easier when the OS only has one specific hardware to work with and is predefined. That is a given.

But I do have to say that cost-power/performance ratio is much better in a PC as if you know what you are doing you can definitely outperform any MAC out there.

Most issues I've had in past regarding PC/Windows
A lot of what you experience as well is not necessarily the OS but the software drivers written by the interface company. As an example, MOTU...that might be the only case where I had issues with windows machine in such a long time. Their case was that they wrote bad 64-bit drivers, when no other device I had caused issues...I had to do restarts and had blue-screen. After some digging with Windows Driver SDK, I pinpointed MOTU as the culprit, it was not necessarily Windows, but a flaky driver. Big middle finger to MOTU after some fighting with them and they pointing fingers...but guess what their 64-bit drivers magically became stable after that

I've never had a restart, and since then I have not had any issues.

Yes I would still like a MAC to play with, do I think I will personally benefit from it more over my PC setups.
No way....I know I would like to play/work with any computer though!!!

Personally my biggest benefit would be to work with Hollyhock and take both perspectives of Hollyhock users

I couldn't justify in my case to purchase a MAC, and I would probably like to do a hackintosh more and fight than just buy a MAC...thats just how I am

-S

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 07 Apr 2015, 16:13

Of course, and I feel the same way -- as I mentioned, I never ran anything except for GNU/Linux since BeOS died in the early 2000s until 2013. So I know well the joys of digging deep.

But I guess I am old now, and tired of fighting. So Windows had to go (but you are right, it could easily be MOTU's fault in terms of the issue I mentioned). Another thing about Windows is that not having any Unix underpinnings, it would only ever feel like half of a computer (or less). But that is also my own bias.

It was a shocking amount of money, but an iMac 5K is a 'steal' when compared to a Windows setup of the same type (which costs ~$2000 or more just for an equivalent screen).

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 07 Apr 2015, 17:38

But I guess I am old now, and tired of fighting

I completely understand, just personal opinions...and I do know what you mean I completely see where frustrations would lead to that.
I enjoy suffering I was born a tech-geek...hahaha...someday I will probably die at the Usine- Leap-Hand of a computer by frustration

5K monitor does look cool, and configuring the computer to what I want at 4400 not including tax made my bank account stroke without even buying.
I've seen some 4K - 40+" tvs of decent name down to 1500 recently, and for 3k budget on the computing part...I'd kill it..
I think I could do even 2 comparable machines that would outperform

I've been an Intel fan for quite awhile, I still am... I like that Mac is using them and for CPU and pure data they do outperform....AMD though with the new A10 I've had a chance to play and OC with and could make some really awesome systems with for a good price. Their architecture CPU/APU/GPU is quite mind-boggling but interesting in the approach. Nice to see a different direction start to evolve from processing.

Discussion could go on forever PC/Mac/Windows/Intel/AMD.
Regardless I would love to cross-platform boundaries, I doubt with a real Mac....but for different reasons

Great discussion, you actually getting my mind rolling this morning.

-S

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 07 Apr 2015, 19:27

Indeed, it is a conversation that is maybe older than us, even.

That said, my point was only that I also did not believe in a "better", but for me the experience has led me to believe. I do not want to come across as a fanboy, only that I was quite skeptical of the "Mac is better for music claims" until I chose to see for myself.

But all the zealots everywhere can go fly a kite, as far as I am concerned

secretkillerofnames · Unread post by **secretkillerofnames** » 07 Apr 2015, 23:46

As someone who comfortably and purposefully flies both kites... I have to say that my Windows machine needs a lot more RAM and CPU speed to be as smooth an OS as OSX on my lo-spec Macbook Air. That being said ... I have occasional issues on both machines. They tend not to be Audio issues on the Mac though. Core Audio is awesome. Maybe if Microsoft put some effort into a proper supported standard rather than relying on third parties taking up the slack with ASIO i'm sure it would be a smooth audio ride also. Then again Apple are just as likely to change their Core Audio to be more compatible with iOS pissing everybody off. Computers - who needs em!

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 07 Apr 2015, 23:50

hahaha,

Well that's great you have evolved your production to make it easier with Mac, as far as beyond Music in your respects. I see that you have some programming background?
How are the other application environments or IDE for MAC? Obviously the Sensomusic team uses, so there probably are some pretty decent tools.
One thing I would like to get into is iPad programming but Apple makes it impossible to do without a Mac.

But all the zealots everywhere can go fly a kite, as far as I am concerned wink

Agreed! One way or the other I am going to be making music, if the kite will make it I will use it to make music too...hahaha

secretkillerofnames · Unread post by **secretkillerofnames** » 08 Apr 2015, 14:42

sephult wrote:hahaha,

Well that's great you have evolved your production to make it easier with Mac, as far as beyond Music in your respects. I see that you have some programming background?

If you're talking to me... I loathe programming. I have some Java experience - mainly building stuff in Processing though. I built an a-life ecosystem for real-time AudioVisual manipulation as part of my Masters.
Fiddled a bit with live-coding as well though it doesn't quite float my musical boat.
I'm more of a Max/MSP style problem-solver.

How are the other application environments or IDE for MAC?

One of my teaching colleagues was showing me Swift the other day. Not sure of its greater application but in an educational capacity it looks very useful. He had built a simple demonstration of wave theory for an acoustics class in a day or so.

sephult · Unread post by **sephult** » 08 Apr 2015, 15:17

hi secretkillerofnames,

yeah that was more geared towards ceaseless, but mostly a general for Mac users.
i didnt see your post as it had went to the next page, but I was meaning as a general statement, in regards to the conversation.

Thanks for sharing, I would like to have a "Users of Usine" type forum, where we can learn more about eachother.
Also I have to do it, but each user has a Wiki page they can create as well, is a great way to communicate eachothers background and personality.

-s

secretkillerofnames · Unread post by **secretkillerofnames** » 09 Apr 2015, 03:15

sephult wrote:hi secretkillerofnames,

Thanks for sharing, I would like to have a "Users of Usine" type forum, where we can learn more about eachother.
Also I have to do it, but each user has a Wiki page they can create as well, is a great way to communicate eachothers background and personality.

-s

Probably a good idea so we don't drag this thread further off topic. There is already an "artistic zone" forum for this though.
I'll be keen to have a wiki page when I start using Usine more. At the moment it's baby steps.

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 14 Apr 2015, 16:48

sephult wrote:hahaha,

Well that's great you have evolved your production to make it easier with Mac, as far as beyond Music in your respects. I see that you have some programming background?
How are the other application environments or IDE for MAC? Obviously the Sensomusic team uses, so there probably are some pretty decent tools.
One thing I would like to get into is iPad programming but Apple makes it impossible to do without a Mac.

Xcode is a very nice IDE, and it is fully functional for free through the App Store. I think it is much better than Visual Studio Community Edition (or whatever the free version is called now). I am using it for working on modules for Usine and it is just doing what I need without too much fuss.

Especially for iPad programming, etc, it is very full-featured. And there is the new Swift programming language, which makes things easy.

But I am from the GNU/Linux school, so my usual IDE is a text editor and the command line

futRshokR · Unread post by **futRshokR** » 15 Apr 2015, 07:10

nay-seven wrote:@futRshokR

...
About your strange language issue, you're the first who mention this, can you please create a ticket for this ?

As I posted above, after I deleted Usine, downloaded a fresh copy, and re-installed, the language prompts did show the words. Maybe the first copy got corrupted when downloading?

Anyway, all this being the case, would you still like for me to create a ticket? No problem for me,but I don't want to clog your ticket queue with a non-event ticket. It's up to you

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 15 Apr 2015, 08:01

ha ok, if a fresh copy solve it, no need for a ticket
Thanks for your feedback

MouMme · Unread post by **MouMme** » 24 Apr 2015, 04:20

Looks like I can only reply, no new topic.housse Galaxy Ace 4 coque Samsung Galaxy Ace 4

Unread post by **oli_lab** » 24 Apr 2015, 07:50

I won't start a war either. But Linux is just so impressive and fast.

On windows...

Yesterday night I notice that my registry tweaking had been changed on my laptop, without my knoledge.

Now it is fixed thanks to Senso tips and the audio is running smoothly again.

http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki2/doku.ph ... q_priority

cheers

Olivar

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 24 Apr 2015, 08:57

@MouMme
Welcome , yes it's an anti spam system, you need to answer first, now you can create your own topic

cuculean · Unread post by **cuculean** » 15 May 2015, 17:32

Can I install hollyhock 2 on dragon touch m8 tablet? This tablet like so many others only has one speaker built in, but unlike other tablets, this one speaker is loud. It is not going to win any awards, but you can hear what you are playing to the point that for me, I actually had to turn it down. That is really the first time I have had to do that with my tablets. The kindle while in stereo, is not that powerful, the T-100 which cost 3-4 times what this tablet costs, has a terrible speaker by comparison. So volume is not a problem.

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