Usine and Novation Nocturn

[goyya76]

Hi all!

i was looking for a compact controller (something that could be taken on stage, to control a Usine-powered guitar rig) - i already have an Evolution UC33 lying around...the main issue is that it has potentiometers, and i was looking for something with encoders to avoid parameter jumping (i know that Usine can manage relative CCs....).
A Novation Nocturn seems to be a nice solution...has anyone here had good experience with it? The Automap stuff isn't important for me, so i'm just curious to know if it can be used as a generic midi controller which sends relative CCs....

thanks in advance,

Goyya

PS: by the way, i'm trying to create a patch to use the UC33 avoiding jumping knobs (basicly, something that gets the actual value of a Usine knob and stops the midi CC coming from the UC33 until it matches THAT value) - if i get something working, i'll post it here - it should be useful for anyone looking to kill parameter jumping without buying a controller with encoders!

[woodslanding]

Great idea!

[amiga909]

PS: by the way, i'm trying to create a patch to use the UC33 avoiding jumping knobs (basicly, something that gets the actual value of a Usine knob and stops the midi CC coming from the UC33 until it matches THAT value) - if i get something working, i'll post it here - it should be useful for anyone looking to kill parameter jumping without buying a controller with encoders!

feature A: jump-free controls
already worked on this a little. the matching is no prob (modules: paramInput: logical AND; paramOutput: eventflow Pass_only_if_change)
a problem I came across is: if you move a knob on your controller you need to know if its active or not (= matches vst-param yes/no).
solution1: send a midi cc to another controller for each controller
-> u need 2 controls for each jump-free control
solution2: just hit 'remote update' on startup (or automate on play)
-> really easier to have jump-free parameter control this way

feature B: remember preset value
wanted to have another feature: save original preset value (from vst preset) and indicate when u are near this value, alike the MS2000 does ('original value' led lights up when u move knob/fader to initial value) -> great for live tweaking
problem: does not work well if you move multiple controls at the same time. once again, just KNOWING your patches inside out is more flexible than letting the computer handle your knowledge

-> what do you think about feature A and B?

imho, feature A can be done with 'update remote', for feature B I am waiting for a better midi controller
better midi controller:
should allow
- different midi messages for Input and Output for each control (alike the monome does) // example: have a step sequencer with moving step light
- different colours // example1: blue color led = cc control, red color led (on same control!) = show initial preset value; example2: blue= audio volume control, red = show audio level
-> does such a controller exist? (the ableton guy has a fancy DIY midi controller similar like that...)
-> alternative: go for touch screen solution

[Clearscreen]

i was looking for a compact controller (something that could be taken on stage, to control a Usine-powered guitar rig)

have a look at a kenton killamix - they're expensive, but worth the money! www.kenton.co.uk
they have 9 endless encoders and 9 buttons and a joystick for each of the 16 midi channels all usb powered and built like a tank!!

[ethnix73]

I've made an attempt to simulate an encoder...in the Midi tools add-ons section

[goyya76]

hi guys, thans for the feedback! @Amiga: i read your post, i'll read it again to grasp everything and answer...@Ethnix: i'll try your add-on asap, in the mean time i ask myself: with the new skinnable graphic engine, maybe it's possible to have your new knobs on the same position...i mean, a knob which represents the phyisical one and an outer ring which represents the actual value of the parameter....

reverting soon,
Goyya

[amiga909]

@ethnix: tkx for the addon

hi guys, thans for the feedback! @Amiga: i read your post, i'll read it again to grasp everything and answer

...if my post was not understandable at the first read, it might be my fault

about jump-free controls, the addon and 'remote update' ('U' in the dashboard):
remote update already covers this problem. the approach here is not to wait until a hardware controller matches a value, rather to always synchronize software and hardware.
however, what remote update cannot do is syncing hardware controllers as non-motorized faders or analog knobs (without LED). ethnix' patch is the right idea for this kind of controllers

did some testing with 'remote update' yesterday and came across a problem I did not notice before:
1. a usine control is set to 'send remote out' (right click on control)
2. both software and hardware control always match
(remark: if u change presets on a vst, and u want the param value from the preset: needs a feedback to the usine control via vst_param_out -> pass_only_if_changed -> control)
3. shut down usine
4. change the hardware controller to a new value
5. start usine again
6. now: one might expect usine sends the value that has been stored before shutting down TO the hardware controller. sadly the opposite happens: usine takes the new value FROM the hardware controller.
a workaround would be to have a preset module...
-> does any1 know if this behavior can be changed? usine values should always dominate hardware values and not the other way around? which behavior is more logical?

[goyya76]

? usine values should always dominate hardware values and not the other way around? which behavior is more logical?

hi! I had a strong feeling that remote update was for motorized faders and led rings....i vote for the first option: i think most of the times you want the hardware to follow the software, also considering that most controller (BCR2000 apart ) offer "small" set of physical controls, so it's likely that the same set of hardware knobs will be assigned to different sets of "software" knobs on the fly...
regarding the vst preset issue: could something like filling arrays with parameters values do the trick? (not an expert here, so i may say something obvious/infeasible)....

lastly, just a line of appreciation for Usine/Usiners: not only a great piece of software, a great community too!

Cheers,
goyya

[amiga909]

? usine values should always dominate hardware values and not the other way around? which behavior is more logical?

hi! I had a strong feeling that remote update was for motorized faders and led rings....i vote for the first option: i think most of the times you want the hardware to follow the software, also considering that most controller (BCR2000 apart ) offer "small" set of physical controls, so it's likely that the same set of hardware knobs will be assigned to different sets of "software" knobs on the fly...
regarding the vst preset issue: could something like filling arrays with parameters values do the trick? (not an expert here, so i may say something obvious/infeasible)....

lastly, just a line of appreciation for Usine/Usiners: not only a great piece of software, a great community too!

Cheers,
goyya

actually I could not reproduce this behavior. (now I think: usine does it right = first behavior)
see here: http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1275

and yes, the community here is really nice

[maxdis]

A Novation Nocturn seems to be a nice solution...has anyone here had good experience with it?

BUMP.... I'm also interested in this controller; any opinion?

[JohnRobert]

Hi everybody,

I'm a bit confused cause my Novation Nocturn used to work perfectly with Usine, but it looks like it's not recognized anymore...
Anyone can help me ?

Thanks a lot,
John

[nay-seven]

Hello,
you use Automap ? mac , pc ?

[JohnRobert]

Hello,
I use Automap, and I'm on mac OS10.10.5

[nay-seven]

i'm also use Automap, 4.8.0 on Yosemite and no issue here, the nocturn is visible in Usine ,
have you test in another software, to be sure it's not an automap configuration question ?

[JohnRobert]

I've tested it on Reaper64, and it works. But Reaper is recognized in Automap, while Usine isn't...

[JohnRobert]

I'm Automap 4.8.0 too.

[nay-seven]

of course you have use the rescan and reset device in the setup/midi tab ?

and in automap/advanced you see something like:

[JohnRobert]

Yes I've used those possibilities in Usine, but is there any way to scan or ad new softwares directly in Automap?

[JohnRobert]

and yes I see this screen in Automap

[nay-seven]

You don't need to add Usine (and don't think it's possible anyway),
you can use the nocturn as a standard midi device. but i don't understand why it's not working for you
which version of Usine are you using, last one ?

to be sure about automap, you can try another software not recognized by automap, here a small freeware to load vst
Ugly VSTi interface

[JohnRobert]

I'm on Usine Hollyhock 2.0,
ok I'll try with the small software and I tell you,
thanx!

[elizabeth7]

Great idea!







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