Akai APC Mini and Sequencer (Exemple with Patch Groove Matrix)

[thomaschamotte]

Hi Everyone,

i have seen this vidéo on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkekk4Ykmr8&t=116s

I have an Akai APC Mini


And i would like to know how i can configure it to chose the colors of the led, see the work of a sequencer in progress etc...
Can i have an exemple with the Patch Groove Matrix ?

Thank you for reading.

[nay-seven]

I don't own an apc, so not sure it's the same color code than novation LP, have you try the add-on corresponding to this video with your APC ?
don't forget to add the device in MIDI in and MIDI out. Switch the rack OFF then ON to refresh.

[nay-seven]

here also a discussion which will interest you with a sequencer for APC ( you can find more by using the search function of this forum)
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4649

[nay-seven]

and here a version working in HH3
arGrid APC by Drakh

[thomaschamotte]

and here a version working in HH3
arGrid APC by Drakh

sorry, i don't know what is a .pat ...

[nay-seven]

it's a patch , just click on an empty patch in Usine and select "load a patch" in the contextual menu

[thomaschamotte]

it's a patch , just click on an empty patch in Usine and select "load a patch" in the contextual menu

Gat it.
As i see i've lot of to do today.

Thank you Nay-Seven,

[thomaschamotte]

it's a patch , just click on an empty patch in Usine and select "load a patch" in the contextual menu

Gat it.
As i see i've lot of to do today.

Thank you Nay-Seven,

sensomusic.com/wiki2/doku.php?id=hollyhock:manual:modules:patches:midi_tessel
it doesn't exist

[nay-seven]

strange your browser don't redirect to
http://www.sensomusic.org/wiki3/doku.php?id=hollyhock:manual:modules:patches:midi_tessel

i've updated the link in the description, thanks

[thomaschamotte]

strange your browser don't redirect to
http://www.sensomusic.org/wiki3/doku.php?id=hollyhock:manual:modules:patches:midi_tessel

i've updated the link in the description, thanks

Cool Thanks

[thomaschamotte]

here also a discussion which will interest you with a sequencer for APC ( you can find more by using the search function of this forum)
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4649

Re: APC midi grid sequencer

Hi Nay-seven,

About this link, i have read the discussion, and jump discussions to discussions etc...

The art Grid is a big Job !

I actually want to play with the "arGRID" and at the same time play with the sounds and the visuals made by the "Physical Groove" from Usine who are randomized. There is something natural inside and i like it.
But you have to help me because I don't know how to put sounds in any sequencers. I mean in any sequenceres.
Is it working only with vst ? Do i Have to use one of the 8 Bus ?

Also
I like the "Physical Groove Patch" from usine. and i have putted some "Mute" "Buttons" in the 8 Physics Groove's "Sub Patch" to control the little bubble gummes. I like it. It's cool. But, the APC "Mini" is mini... well... mini for the moment... So i can't control at the same time the arGrid that i want to explore, and the my specials "Buttons" in the parent patch of the Physical Groove.
Or Maybe i have to write in the code of the "Page Chooser" module contained in the arGrid patch to creat an other Page generate by the arGrid in an other patch in an other rack called...
Do you think i can creat a Bus contained in the "Physical Groove" to go to a rack with a control matrix 16x16 for exemple.
And send this neww patch matrix in the "arGrid" ?
i don't know how to read the code contained in the "Page Chooser"it well... So... write in the module... you can imagine...

I don't know if i have choosen the right path but... maybe i have lost a c on the road.

[nay-seven]

you're lucky cause the arGrid send midi notes and use buses, so it's quiet easy to link it ,
Here a workspace with the arGrid and 4 racks, each rack correspond to a bus (see the first patch, not empty) then you can drag a bank (and create yours) , each one will answer to arGrid (most of banks are set with notes from 36 to 48, so set up arGrid this way)

Download

[nay-seven]

An other one i found in my archive, kind of matrix groove
I've tried to adapt it for Apc with drakh script, you'll tell me if it works for you
This one is a patch
Download

[thomaschamotte]

Hey Nay-Seven,

I'm working on your patch the Matrix Groove.

I want to do the same process of the Matrix Groove velocity controlled by the mouse in the Matrix Grid.
But in your patch it would be the velocity controlled by "Shift" with the potentiometer of the APC Mini.
I have made a schematic to explain myself.


You know i have seen in the arGRID patch how the shift button is used.
My reflexion is quietly the same but i'm locked because i don't know how to code the script...

But the patch would be :

- If i press a button of the APC Mini in a On Position; for exemple : ((144 (NOTE ON) - 56( it is the first button top left) - 127 ))
-> the button begin a shift because i stay in a shift position.
- When a button begin a shift.
-> The velocity of this button can be controlled by the potentiometer of the same colonne.
here : 176 (CTRL CHANGE) - 48 - 127 or 176 (CTRL CHANGE) - 48 - 00
- When the button begin a NOTE OFF it stope to be a SHIFT.

With this kine of reflexion i can do the patch by myself.
Unfortunately i can't write the code of the Script. I don't know witch Script i have to choose to begin.

Can you help me ?

[nay-seven]

Creating scripts is not necessary all times, of course it can simplify the patch and reduce cpu a bit, but don't count with me about scriptings, script language is too abstract to me and i prefer patching.but there's some scripts guru's here who can help if needed.
On my side i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted i think for you.

1 in the novation/matrix/ sub patch you can find the last note used, and here i've add theses (selected) modules to control its value. a knob control a list of values ( corresponding to pads color) . so you press a pad and change its color with the knob, no need of a shift button here.


2 in the seqline sub patch , you transform these colors values in gain values for the samplers it's a polyphonic patch , so don't forget to apply poly)


of course you'll need to modify and use the APC color values in both cases

Download

[nay-seven]

i see you have delete one of your post, about led feedback have you activated the midi output of your apc and add it on the output of your rack ?

[thomaschamotte]

Creating scripts is not necessary all times, of course it can simplify the patch and reduce cpu a bit, but don't count with me about scriptings, script language is too abstract to me and i prefer patching.but there's some scripts guru's here who can help if needed.
On my side i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted i think for you.

1 in the novation/matrix/ sub patch you can find the last note used, and here i've add theses (selected) modules to control its value. a knob control a list of values ( corresponding to pads color) . so you press a pad and change its color with the knob, no need of a shift button here.
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/upload ... 0value.png

2 in the seqline sub patch , you transform these colors values in gain values for the samplers it's a polyphonic patch , so don't forget to apply poly)
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/upload ... 20gain.png

of course you'll need to modify and use the APC color values in both cases

Download

Hey Nay,

I'm not doing with your Groovy Matrix Patch.
I thought i can do the patch by myself but i realize i don't know well enough how to concretize the process of the maths between two modules, the process of the "Get value arrey" or the "set value arrey", or again how to adapt your NOVATION "sub patch" "filter" and "Matrix" to the midi note of the APC Mini...

Can i have a little nudge ?

[thomaschamotte]

Creating scripts is not necessary all times, of course it can simplify the patch and reduce cpu a bit, but don't count with me about scriptings, script language is too abstract to me and i prefer patching.but there's some scripts guru's here who can help if needed.
On my side i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted i think for you.

1 in the novation/matrix/ sub patch you can find the last note used, and here i've add theses (selected) modules to control its value. a knob control a list of values ( corresponding to pads color) . so you press a pad and change its color with the knob, no need of a shift button here.
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/upload ... 0value.png

2 in the seqline sub patch , you transform these colors values in gain values for the samplers it's a polyphonic patch , so don't forget to apply poly)
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/upload ... 20gain.png

of course you'll need to modify and use the APC color values in both cases

Download

Hey Nay,

I'm not doing with your Groovy Matrix Patch.
I thought i can do the patch by myself but i realize i don't know well enough how to concretize the process of the maths between two modules, the process of the "Get value arrey" or the "set value arrey", or again how to adapt your NOVATION "sub patch" "filter" and "Matrix" to the midi note of the APC Mini...

Can i have a little nudge ?

I can't understand the values of the selector. Because the increase of the knob never describe an increase of shade colors.

[thomaschamotte]

Creating scripts is not necessary all times, of course it can simplify the patch and reduce cpu a bit, but don't count with me about scriptings, script language is too abstract to me and i prefer patching.but there's some scripts guru's here who can help if needed.
On my side i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted i think for you.

1 in the novation/matrix/ sub patch you can find the last note used, and here i've add theses (selected) modules to control its value. a knob control a list of values ( corresponding to pads color) . so you press a pad and change its color with the knob, no need of a shift button here.
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/upload ... 0value.png

2 in the seqline sub patch , you transform these colors values in gain values for the samplers it's a polyphonic patch , so don't forget to apply poly)
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/upload ... 20gain.png

of course you'll need to modify and use the APC color values in both cases

Download

Hey Nay,

I'm not doing with your Groovy Matrix Patch.
I thought i can do the patch by myself but i realize i don't know well enough how to concretize the process of the maths between two modules, the process of the "Get value arrey" or the "set value arrey", or again how to adapt your NOVATION "sub patch" "filter" and "Matrix" to the midi note of the APC Mini...

Can i have a little nudge ?

I can't understand the values of the selector. Because the increase of the knob never describe an increase of shade colors.

[thomaschamotte]

Creating scripts is not necessary all times, of course it can simplify the patch and reduce cpu a bit, but don't count with me about scriptings, script language is too abstract to me and i prefer patching.but there's some scripts guru's here who can help if needed.
On my side i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted i think for you.

1 in the novation/matrix/ sub patch you can find the last note used, and here i've add theses (selected) modules to control its value. a knob control a list of values ( corresponding to pads color) . so you press a pad and change its color with the knob, no need of a shift button here.
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/upload ... 0value.png

2 in the seqline sub patch , you transform these colors values in gain values for the samplers it's a polyphonic patch , so don't forget to apply poly)
http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/upload ... 20gain.png

of course you'll need to modify and use the APC color values in both cases

Download

Hey Nay,

I'm not doing with your Groovy Matrix Patch.
I thought i can do the patch by myself but i realize i don't know well enough how to concretize the process of the maths between two modules, the process of the "Get value arrey" or the "set value arrey", or again how to adapt your NOVATION "sub patch" "filter" and "Matrix" to the midi note of the APC Mini...

Can i have a little nudge ?

http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... lector.jpg

I can't understand the values of the selector. Because the increase of the knob never describe an increase of shade colors.

Finally i use the apc mini script of arGrid to go to the NOVATION Sub patch

[nay-seven]

as said " i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted "
this color set are done for novation, for example, a note with velocity of 14 will give you a red pad, but Akai don't use the same code, so you have to found a technical pdf about colors and Akai apc.

A friend send me an apc mini soon, so i will check on my side

[thomaschamotte]

as said " i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted "
this color set are done for novation, for example, a note with velocity of 14 will give you a red pad, but Akai don't use the same code, so you have to found a technical pdf about colors and Akai apc.

A friend send me an apc mini soon, so i will check on my side

There is only three colors on the apc mini. I don't speak about the colors of the apc mini, but the colors in usine.
I don't understand why the comportement of gain and the colors of the patchs misbehave when i try to control the knob with the potentiomètre of the pac mini.

But i understand know this is not in the sub patch of the novation adapted with the arGrid apc mini script i have to check, but in the sub patch of the groove patch.

[thomaschamotte]

as said " i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted "
this color set are done for novation, for example, a note with velocity of 14 will give you a red pad, but Akai don't use the same code, so you have to found a technical pdf about colors and Akai apc.

A friend send me an apc mini soon, so i will check on my side

There is only three colors on the apc mini. I don't speak about the colors of the apc mini, but the colors in usine.
I don't understand why the comportement of gain and the colors of the patchs misbehave when i try to control the knob with the potentiomètre of the pac mini.

But i understand know this is not in the sub patch of the novation adapted with the arGrid apc mini script i have to check, but in the sub patch of the groove patch.

There is something i can't address for the moment.
In the Sub Matrix Patch of the Novation.
The note midi who arrived in the matrix sub novation patch are good. Because of the arGrid script for apc mini.
Something is turning wrong in the maths's conversions of the Midi Notes to the "Values Arrey" who are going to the marix/sub patch and the seq/sub patch...

[thomaschamotte]

as said " i've worked on a solution, of course works for my launchpad mini currently but can be adapted "
this color set are done for novation, for example, a note with velocity of 14 will give you a red pad, but Akai don't use the same code, so you have to found a technical pdf about colors and Akai apc.

A friend send me an apc mini soon, so i will check on my side

There is only three colors on the apc mini. I don't speak about the colors of the apc mini, but the colors in usine.
I don't understand why the comportement of gain and the colors of the patchs misbehave when i try to control the knob with the potentiomètre of the pac mini.

But i understand know this is not in the sub patch of the novation adapted with the arGrid apc mini script i have to check, but in the sub patch of the groove patch.

There is something i can't address for the moment.
In the Sub Matrix Patch of the Novation.
The note midi who arrived in the matrix sub novation patch are good. Because of the arGrid script for apc mini.
Something is turning wrong in the maths's conversions of the Midi Notes to the "Values Arrey" who are going to the marix/sub patch and the seq/sub patch...

The Midi out note/apc mini script of the arGrid patch is controled like this....

[nay-seven]

2 things:

-Strange , on your picture , the akai mini have the same number notes than the launchpad mini...( will check this in a few days)

-on the second screenshot, i don't understand why you want use this script, it's for launchpad user ??


maybe better to not systematically quote my messages ? , quickly confusing ?

[nay-seven]

Ok, so i receive an apc mini, strange i've always disconnection of the interface on MAC, do you know this issue ? And note chart are different than your last picture, official number are left/ top =56

anyway, i've worked on a PC and have the groove matrix patch working, about velocity, not solved cause only 3 colors, and some settings made the pads blink, so it's a headache to find a way, for the moment i stop about this, maybe later
Tell me if it's work for you,
you can also use the select button on the apc to change the sequence length
and the stop all clips button reset the matrix

Download

[thomaschamotte]

Hello Nay,

Thank for for updating the conversation.
I tried your patch.
You true there is only three colors with the APC Mini. But it is a reason of not being able to control the gain on each button ?
Tomorrow i will check it.

[nay-seven]

ok, but works for you? , i mean,
color feedback on the pads? ( steps in red, notes in amber)
reset all pads?
sequence length ?

on my side i use the 8 faders to control the 4 xy , fun

[thomaschamotte]

It works but i don't understand what is the 4 xy
But the colors works.
I don't understand wet how works the shift button.

[nay-seven]

The XY are the modules after the sampler , they control gain and pitch of the sampler,
i don't have assign the shift button to anything in this patch ( around 3 hours on modifications yet today )

[thomaschamotte]

The idea in the last patch who was "last button pres" to control the gain of any button with one potentiometer of the apc was so great.
Do you think it can works on your neaw patch ?

[nay-seven]

Maybe , but i don't find a good solution for the moment,
akai has a strange implementation:
if you want light a pad, you need to send a note On with velocity 01 for green color, to light off this pad, you need to send...a note off ? no will be too simple, but a new note On with velocity of 0
Then color order are also strange, 01 will give you a green pad, 02 a green blink pad ! 03 a red pad , 04 a blink red and so...
and the challenge is to modify the array of the matrix and the gain of the sampler...

[thomaschamotte]

I adapt the Usine's "Groove matrix patch" to midi with the script of arGrid and with elements, because i'm interested of Velocity value who can be changed with the mouse.

That might be interesting to have "the last button pressed" of your patch to control with one of the potentiometers of the APC, the velocity of the any 32 buttons used by the matrix.
But, when you control with the mouse the velocity of the notes directly in Usine on the "Groove matrix" and after you want to shut down or open up a note with the APC Mini, the velocity you have choosen with your mouse is not maintained. The value is on the top.
So... the last button pressed could be the solution.

After,
the Shift Button of arGrid might be a powerful solution to integrate the APC Mini and control the gain and the pitch of each sequencer with 4 potentiometers. 4 for the gain in the unshift potition and the same 4 for the pitch in the Shift position.

Just ideas.

[nay-seven]

Yes, i've made some progress on this, can be an adddon soon,

What i have now:
-last pressed note can be set a velocity value with the main fader on the right, there 's a color feeedback ( 3 colors but more velocities range)
-others faders ( 2 by track) control gain and pitch ( xy pad)
- if shift pressed, the first fader control the start position of the sampler ( soft take over mode)
- low round button control previous and next samples for each samplers
- up rond right button mute each track,
- select button let you control length of the sequence
- stop all clips button, reset the matrix
- button above random the sequence

todo: presets with the low row

requirement: set your apc MIDI device out to motorized

Can you check all this points and tell me if all works for you ?

Download

[thomaschamotte]

Yes, i've made some progress on this, can be an adddon soon,

What i have now:
-last pressed note can be set a velocity value with the main fader on the right, there 's a color feeedback ( 3 colors but more velocities range)
-others faders ( 2 by track) control gain and pitch ( xy pad)
- if shift pressed, the first fader control the start position of the sampler
- low round button control previous and next samples for each samplers
- up rond right button mute each track,
- select button let you control length of the sequence
- stop all clips button, reset the matrix
- button above random the sequence

todo: presets with the low row

requirement: set your apc MIDI device out to motorized

Can you check all this points and tell me if all works for you ?

Download

Of curse, it's early 3h24 in the morning for me right now. I sleep a wild and i try it !

[thomaschamotte]

Hi Nay,
I have tested your patch.
I'm very impressive ! It works very well but there is somethings i don't gat it.

First i have made a picture to visualize what we are talking about.



What i don't gat it :
- I don't know how to use the Select round button...

Idea
I need something but i don't know if it is possible to do it and if it is, i don't know how to do it.
I think it could be more confortable if a second Shift Button is created.
And in this way the second shift button could controlled the Pitch and the Gain of each sequence.
Because in my workspace i already need all the faders.
If Pitch and Gain of sequences are controlled by faders only when "Shift 2" is pressed it is free to use the faders how we want for a Midi Control situation of our personal workspace.
What are you thinking about it ?
I have made a schematic.

[nay-seven]

ok, glad you like it and all works well
about the select button : press it and keep it pressed, now press one of the pad of the visualization sequence to set the sequence length.

About your suggestions, i will think about it, but understand i can't add all your personal needs, my purpose is now to create an add-on for everyone. ( what's about an other controller like a nanokontrol 2 or a xtouch mini to replace ?)

here the new features :
- New interface / colors
- Shift+the main fader on the right will set the main gain
- the row below the visualization sequence are now 8 buses (binds) you can use to start/stop external fx's
- first leds of each sequence stay lighted for a better visualization
- the 2 last rows are presets choice

Download

[thomaschamotte]

ok, glad you like it and all works well
about the select button : press it and keep it pressed, now press one of the pad of the visualization sequence to set the sequence length.

About your suggestions, i will think about it, but understand i can't add all your personal needs, my purpose is now to create an add-on for everyone. ( what's about an other controller like a nanokontrol 2 or a xtouch mini to replace ?)

here the new features :
- New interface / colors
- Shift+the main fader on the right will set the main gain
- the row below the visualization sequence are now 8 buses (binds) you can use to start/stop external fx's
- first leds of each sequence stay lighted for a better visualization
- the 2 last rows are presets choice

Download

Ok, i try it right now.

I know you can't add all my personal needs. But it is not just for me... it's for avery body. I think it is more confortable to have a second shift button who can let free the 8 first fader.

I try it.

[thomaschamotte]

I love it ! Really.
It's gonna be one of my stage instrument !

The aesthetic of your interface is very cool ! Very nice !
And the settings are now really confortable.
Big job.

Questions and remarks
- Do you think the sens of the faders who control the Gain and the Pitch are not revers ?
Because i have tried the patch in a real situation and all the time i miss that the first left fader is for the sequence number 4.
The sens of occidental reading is left to right, 0 to 1.
- The two last row are for the presets. I will use only 8 preset max and use the last row to control buttons i have created for the Groove Physics.
- the First led of each sequence stay lighted doesn't work.
- In my schematic you finally have only one free last button on the right below the Select Button. Am i rong ?
- I continu to think it could be awesome to use the Gain and Pitch Faders with an 2nd Shift Button to be free to use the faders as we want.
- The Main Gain is a good idea !

[thomaschamotte]

I'm working on music with your Matrix Groove... you have to give it a name !

Finally i like your solution for the volume of the sequencers without the shift button... i have to find an other hardware to control the others fader of my plugin.

[thomaschamotte]

I found a problem.
The fader who control the gain of the sequencer nbr 4 (seconde extrem left of the APC) is going revers.
When i level up the gain go down, when i level down the gain goes up.

[nay-seven]

yes, it's happen time to time, be solved next one i hope,
waiting for this, open the options panel, move the fader to find the knob corresponding, in its settings panel/midi tab, set the midi learn to inverse

about the first led, i mean the first round button above the faders, you must have 4 buttons in red

About order, we can discuss, and you can change this, with the midi learns, but for me left to right correspond to down to up ?

[nay-seven]

Add-on uploaded

Discussion here :http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=37714#p37714

video overview :https://vimeo.com/232225617

Thanks again for ideas and debugging.

[thomaschamotte]

Hi Nay,
i don't find your link with the last version of your patch as the one you use in your video or the one you have puted in uploader ".png".
Did you puted it online ?

[nay-seven]

update your addon tab ?

[thomaschamotte]

I mean,
i think the last version is this one : matrix groove by APC proto 9
But we can't see the gain volume one the Right side of the matrix so it make me ask myself if it's really the last one.

I'm trying right to change all your sampler as sampler record, because i would like to work with your Groove patch and record in it at the same time.

I like your patch !

[nay-seven]

Glad you like it
in Usine /browser/addon , use the update from internet button, then in the groove makers folder , you'll see Apc GrooveBox Xl

[thomaschamotte]

Haaa i did'nt update my addons that's why.
Awesome man !

[thomaschamotte]

Hey Nay,

I'm trying to creat a rec mode with your Apc groove.
A rec mode in the Show list.
I don't want to transform the samplers to sampler_rec i just want to add 4 sampler_Rec.
This is the way :
1 - i created a Apc Folder in Usine package->medias->Audio->Apc GrooveBox->1_Hit Hat
->2_Kick
->3-Snare
->4-Others
Each folders for a sampler.
In each of the folders i put an "white_empty_sound".

I create in the "Sub patch seqline" a sampler_rec and i link everything who is linked to the sampler.
I creat the In and out links.
The sound go through the Groove it works.

Now when i apply polyphonie in my sub patch i loose all the midi separated connections between the samplers and the apc.
I can only control all the pitch at the same time with only one button.
I loose the independance of the samplers. Everything begin commun...
I don't know how to fixe it or how to apply the polyphonie and keep the basic configuration...

[nay-seven]

not sure to understand your way and why not replace sampler by a sampler recorder but anyway, once applied the polyphony, you need to recreate the MIDI learns in the option panel

[thomaschamotte]

Ok.
Thank you.