Mididesigner and midi feedback

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 12 May 2019, 23:35

Hello,
anyone using Mididesigner here?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 13 May 2019, 09:15

not use it ( is there a demo version ? )
but what is your issue ?

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 13 May 2019, 13:17

no issues, it works just great.

I would be happy to setup midi feedback so that the faders on Mididesigner are reflecting the actual situation on Usine.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 13 May 2019, 14:20

and it's not working with the classic way ?
i mean:
- fader in Usine set to motorized
- Midi device out set to motorized

x.iso · Unread post by **x.iso** » 13 May 2019, 14:36

OSC would help with that I think, since it should be a 2-way control, but that's if this app supports OSC. It looks too cheesy though, there are plenty of OSC controller apps out there.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 13 May 2019, 15:16

yes, appz like TouchOSc propose MIDI or OSC, that's why i start by MIDI, if we talk about OSC, activate the trace and OSC in monitoring to see the OSC adress and try to send them back?

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 22 Jun 2020, 00:08

Hi,
I've moved from PC to Mac and the connection between my Ipad with Mididesigner and my laptop is much more solid.
I want to test midi feedback again, so in Setup>MIDI, checked "MIDI feedback to all devices" but I can't see anything happen.
Any help?
thanks

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 22 Jun 2020, 00:17

To be more specific:
When I adjust the faders on Usine using the mouse, their values are sent back to Mididesigner.
When the same faders are moved from another MIDI device, the values are not sent to Mididesigner.
Any chance to get it working?
Thanks

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 22 Jun 2020, 09:35

need to test more , but i suppose MIDI feedback is assigned to mouse down or when you change presets for example.
But you can easily use a MIDI create module to send back the value ?

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 25 Jun 2020, 23:08

no experience in creating midi modules here...

nay-seven wrote: ↑
22 Jun 2020, 09:35
...But you can easily use a MIDI create module to send back the value ?

x.iso · Unread post by **x.iso** » 26 Jun 2020, 02:14

unguitar wrote: ↑
25 Jun 2020, 23:08
no experience in creating midi modules here...

nay-seven wrote: ↑
22 Jun 2020, 09:35
...But you can easily use a MIDI create module to send back the value ?

he meant 'MIDI Create' module, that is a module that creates MIDI message via trigger. Since MIDIdesigner expects a MIDI message back, you need to convert your fader value back to MIDI via this module. set it to Control change type and set CC number in code1 inlet, and fader's value in code2 inlet (but don't forget to use Change Scale module to scale your fader's range to 0-127 midi range). then also output fader to 'Has changed' module and connect to create trigger, so any time your fader is updating value, midi is also updated.

after all that I'm only wondering, what's the point of having MIDIdesigner in first place if you have Usine? you could use TouchOSC if it's for mobile touchscreen controller setup.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 26 Jun 2020, 09:36

yes, here an example where knob has 0-1 value
Midi learn give automatic code 1 value

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 28 Jun 2020, 09:40

Thank you.
ok, I see the point of this turnaround..

However I'm not able to see which is the right location for such Midi Generator Create Message.
I want to automate the inputs of fours different racks.

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 28 Jun 2020, 09:42

x.iso wrote: ↑
26 Jun 2020, 02:14
after all that I'm only wondering, what's the point of having MIDIdesigner in first place if you have Usine? you could use TouchOSC if it's for mobile touchscreen controller setup.

I use MidiDesigner as a controller because I need to control another application ( the glorius Mobius) which is not hosted by Usine.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 28 Jun 2020, 10:33

I want to automate the inputs of fours different racks.

If you talk about Usine, you can use a Usine Rack settings module.

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 28 Jun 2020, 16:08

Yes, I want to set Midi feedback on each respective input of four different Racks in Usine.
Under which category am I finding the Usine Rack settings module you talk about?

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 28 Jun 2020, 16:09

Yes, I want to set Midi feedback on each respective input of four different Racks in Usine.
Under which category am I finding the Usine Rack settings module you talk about?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 28 Jun 2020, 16:29

browser/modules/interface control

but remember you can also use the word rack in the search bar ?

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 30 Jun 2020, 22:30

nay-seven wrote: ↑
28 Jun 2020, 16:29
browser/modules/interface control

but remember you can also use the word rack in the search bar ?

it looks like we're running out of the context.
I'm surely not that much into Usine architecture to be able to translate cryptic messages, I use it to make music, not to challenge my digital syntax.
thanks anyway.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 30 Jun 2020, 22:43

don't worry, no cryptic message here

in the browser/module tab, type the word "rack " in the search field :

: search.jpg (52.7 KiB) Viewed 22816 times

Unread post by **SylvainT** » 30 Jun 2020, 22:59

Hello Luca,

I don't use MidiDesigner, but Lemur on iPad with my Mac. I encountered also problems with Midi Feedback.
I found solutions, and probably news solutions will arrived soon as we spoke about that with Senso this afternoon.
Just to be sure you checked everything, 3 points with 3 pictures :

Have you checked the motorized option in the learn page of the module ?

: Motorized On on controlers

Have you checked the motorized option on your Midi Device out ?

: Motorized device checked on the Midi device

The problem I found is that with the Lemur, the Midi Device In and the Midi Device Out have not the same name (Daemon Input and Daemon Output). For regular controlers like Midi Fighter Twister, the input name is the same as the output name. We probably can change that in future HH4 update.
Actually, the solution is to check "Midi Feedback to all devices" in the Midi Setup, but don't forget to check the device out also.

: Midi Feedback to all devices

To avoid problems with other controlers, I use Midi Channel 15 and 16 for the Lemur to not send feedback to the Twister which is on channel 1.

I hope it help.

All the best

Sylvain

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 01 Jul 2020, 23:42

Thank you Sylvain, very helpful.
Actually it looks like all what you suggested is already there.

Do you think the culprit is the fact I'm willing to mirror the racks' input faders that are controlled both by Mididesigner and by Audiofront's MIDI Expression Quattro back to Mididesigner?
Midi feedback works perfectly when I move the input faders via the mouse: Mididesigner gets the feedback that updates the sate of its relative faders.
It just doesn't get Midi feedback when the faders are controlled by MIDI Expression Quattro.
many thanks and my best,
Luca

Unread post by **SylvainT** » 02 Jul 2020, 08:50

Yes, the problem should probably be there.
I don't know how you learn 2 Midi Device on the same fader. It could be difficult to have a clean remote with a physical fader (your expression pedal) that doesn't receive remote and a virtual fader (Midi Designer and/or Usine) that receives and sends remote.
Could you share a rack, it will be simplier to answer you very clearly.

Sylvain

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 02 Jul 2020, 17:05

my point is that Midifeedback should read the position of the fader and not intercept the Midi ( or mouse) control that is directed to the fader.
Here is one of my racks.
I have 4 racks

4 B.rack: (294.19 KiB) Downloaded 383 times

like the one you see attached, each one with a different set of Vst's.

drakh · Unread post by **drakh** » 06 Jul 2020, 20:47

yep this is known problem. faders/switches/knobs etc are sending midifeedback only when change was invoked from GUI

unguitar wrote: ↑
01 Jul 2020, 23:42
Thank you Sylvain, very helpful.
Actually it looks like all what you suggested is already there.

Do you think the culprit is the fact I'm willing to mirror the racks' input faders that are controlled both by Mididesigner and by Audiofront's MIDI Expression Quattro back to Mididesigner?
Midi feedback works perfectly when I move the input faders via the mouse: Mididesigner gets the feedback that updates the sate of its relative faders.
It just doesn't get Midi feedback when the faders are controlled by MIDI Expression Quattro.
many thanks and my best,
Luca

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 09 Jul 2020, 23:56

ah! everything is clear now!!!
no need to scrap my head any longer thinking it's me missing the point.
thank you Drakh

drakh wrote: ↑
06 Jul 2020, 20:47
yep this is known problem. faders/switches/knobs etc are sending midifeedback only when change was invoked from GUI

unguitar wrote: ↑
01 Jul 2020, 23:42
Thank you Sylvain, very helpful.
Actually it looks like all what you suggested is already there.

Do you think the culprit is the fact I'm willing to mirror the racks' input faders that are controlled both by Mididesigner and by Audiofront's MIDI Expression Quattro back to Mididesigner?
Midi feedback works perfectly when I move the input faders via the mouse: Mididesigner gets the feedback that updates the sate of its relative faders.
It just doesn't get Midi feedback when the faders are controlled by MIDI Expression Quattro.
many thanks and my best,
Luca

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 11 Jul 2020, 14:38

Automatic feedback in Usine is a feature request, but it is not so easy to implement because they are so many different protocols...

unguitar · Unread post by **unguitar** » 13 Jul 2020, 22:17

thank you for clearing this, Senso.
It's fully understandable. Usine is such a deep environment that I don't consider this to be a reason of weakness.
I just feel better knowing the real thing instead of feeling like I was missing the point.
Usine is huge.

senso wrote: ↑
11 Jul 2020, 14:38
Automatic feedback in Usine is a feature request, but it is not so easy to implement because they are so many different protocols...

Unread post by **SylvainT** » 13 Jul 2020, 23:39

Midi feedback have change with last update, everythings look great for me with Lemur apps, if think with other apps also.
I just had to edit all my midi learns, but it's good for the new one

Sylvain

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