Noob with Questions

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 22 Jan 2009, 09:37

I just got my feet wet with Usine today and I am quite pleased to see how well it handles recalling presets from some of my more stubborn plugins.
I am just hoping for a bit of insigt on exactly what I can accomplish with Usine before I dedicate too much time trying to figure things out from the ground up. I have been working with Plogue Bidule VST hosted in Live 7 for close to a year and Bidule does some things very well but I am thinking Usine might in part replace some of what Bidule is doing more effectively.
What I am looking at Usine as an option for is to manage my VST effect chains on return channels in Live
My questions are:

1-Can various audio routing between plugins be recalled as part of presets?Is there any sort of audio routing matrix or how the heck would you do it? I have looked!
[edit:ok this is assed backwards but if I load the 32 i/o Bidule VST in Usine then I can use the audio switching matrix in Bidule with Usine recalling the parameters.There must be a more elegant solution?}

2-How can I have parameter feedback from my plugins to my controllers in Usine?In Bidule VST this is easy.It seems like the VST plugin version can only deal with midi directly from the host and my attempts at getting any parameter feedback from a plugin failed miserably.

3-Back to midi i/o. I sort of need to be able to pipe a bit of midi between instances of Usine as well as from plugins to host. Do I have access to any of my external or virtual ports from within Usine VST?

3-Can I stream audio from one instance of Usine to another?

4-Plugin delay compensation? How does it work in Usine?Do plugins report delay to Usine which then in turn reports the delay to host?

5-Remote preset selection.This is a little gray to me.I have found how to midi map a control to each conductor "scene" but it seems like I have to map a button containing a unique CC to each scene and cannot have just one CC scroll through the list.I have also figured out that I can load the conductor panel into the Usine user interface and assign a CC to Scroll through the banks but this just seems odd.
Is there a smooth easy way to send say a midi program change message to Usine and have access to all the banks and presets?And how about remote control of just the Preset manager module?
{edit:also I could have sworn the conductor was changing presets for me before but now all it seems to do is change my view?
What is the difference between the preset manager and Conductor?}

6-What is the purpose of having so many tracks available in a VST insert and am I supposed to be clustering all of the effects that I want to chain on only one track? (sorry if this question is really dumb:)

...oh, and why no multi-output VSTI?This would be very very usefull...umm, actually essential as I start to think of one particularily loved multi-output VSTI that I've never before had such useable total recall for!!

Sorry if these questions seem noobish...It's just hard jumping into a new way of thinking.

[more editing: Ok, now I'm extra confused.It seems like all Usine VST ad VSTI Instances combine into one interface.WTF!
I guess I just figured out solutions to a few of my own questions..?So holy crap I can have every channel in Live merge into a central meeting place!!??This changes everything...I think?}

siegfried · Unread post by **siegfried** » 22 Jan 2009, 12:54

for 4) check http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1313

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 22 Jan 2009, 19:14

for 2 : you mean something like this..? : http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki/doku.php?id=howto:index
for 5 : on the same wiki page i (ve just add a " how to link a fader to control conductor..

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 22 Jan 2009, 21:35

Ok, so for midi feedback from a plugin I have to add a pass if change module to each and every parameter I map...!?

Well the first problem I'm running into is that I canot seem to find the parameters I am mapping on the GUI to even attach a Pass if Change module. How do I scroll to see the missing from view parameters? The plugin in question is U-he More Feedback Machine 2 and I cannot even see the most basic cutoff and filter parameters ecause it seems the GUI only can extend so far.

And then how do I map controllers to a pugin that does not have it's own internal 'edit midi map' dialogue/option?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 22 Jan 2009, 21:58

How do I scroll to see the missing from view parameters?.

check the yellow arrow in the vst parameters window

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 22 Jan 2009, 22:19

nay-seven wrote:
How do I scroll to see the missing from view parameters?.
check the yellow arrow in the vst parameters window

Doh! Well that makes a big difference! I assume the midi mapping is that easy too?

Also is there any more significant differences between the free VST version and the paid VST version that I should be aware of?
The only info I could find is "can't edit Sub Patches and Scripts or modify Layouts".

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 22 Jan 2009, 22:32

experience to do :
press ctrl and drag from an inlet of your vst ,stop pressing ctrl you'll see a menu ..add for example a fader , now right click on it ...midi learn...et hop...

about pro version , you'll also will have access to addons..and its treasures…

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 22 Jan 2009, 23:32

nay-seven wrote:experience to do :

Ask not if Usine can do it for you but how it is done...

I am still failing to get midi feedback to my controller from a plugin.I have assigned the midi CC to a knob, connected a Pass if Change module as shown above, enabled 'remote (send out)' in the knob menu and enabled a midi input from Usine in Ableton and sent this track to my Controller but I am not even receiving the midi from Usine in Live to pass on to my controller.
I thought I would get crafty and load Bidule in Usine to capture the output from the Pass if Change module and relay it from Bidule to the midi port my Controller is on but I just get a bunch of garbage midi from the Pass if Change module.

Also wondering if the track count is limited in the free version?I am trying to spread an 8 channel VSTI across multiple channels in Live but can only get three outputs working...

[edit: this is working fine now that I went down to v4.01e.I was using the beta so maybe that i the problem?. What I've discovered now is that I can only create 10 tracks and the i/o menu seems to show up to 16 input and outputs.Is this a hard set limit of some kind?I was hoping I would insert every one of 24-30 audio tracks directly into Usine from my host]

And the last real stumbling block for me is that I want to be able to freely route any vst to any vst in any order and be able to recall
this as part of a peset.I can see this might be possible using a extremely complicated array of send and receive busses and a pair each of Dispatchers and Selectors for each of 20+ plugins I use (is there no Busses or Dispatch/Selector that can handle stereo connections?)
Is there an easier way?

I have no qualms about buying the program once I am sure it is going to cover my bases. I'm sure I'll get my 70 Euro worth of annoying questions and feature requests in no time!

Thanks for all the help!

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 23 Jan 2009, 00:11

Ok, I just ran into big problems.It seems that Usine VST does not in any way shape or form take advantage of Live's multiprocessing abilities accross multiple instances/channels...
It's quite easy to max out just one of four cores each running at 3.6Ghz..

Please tell me this isn't true! I was just starting to get excited about the possibilities!

[edit: perhaps I can deal with this limitation by keeping the Usine tracks VST only and leaving my VSTI's spread across Live tracks how they already are so long as I can somehow end up with Usine drawing from a core that Live is otherwise leaving mostly alone?
Does enabling dual core optimization have any effect in the VST version?]

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 23 Jan 2009, 12:42

about " get midi feedback to my controller from a plugin "
i've updated the wiki page :

http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki/doku.php?id=howto:index/

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 23 Jan 2009, 21:08

nay-seven wrote:about " get midi feedback to my controller from a plugin "

Thanks again...
I'm afraid I still don't quite get it..I'm stumped at figuring out which module X127 is? This is definately looking like one of the less "easy" aspects of Usine.

I have now put in a pile of hours going through Usine and it seems like I have gotten close to understanding most of my quetions so far:

1-"Can various audio routing between plugins be recalled as part of presets"
=No one clear solution or right way of doing it but yes it is doable...a scalable routing matrix would be nice!

2-"How can I have parameter feedback from my plugins to my controllers in Usine"
=Looks like a hell of a lot of work but should work

3-"I sort of need to be able to pipe a bit of midi between instances of Usine "
=This is obvious now, but the inability to load or directly access my virtual midi ports from within Usine makes things less easy

3-"Can I stream audio from one instance of Usine to another?"
=There is no such thing as instances of Usine

4-"Plugin delay compensation?"
=Still testing...

5-"Remote preset selection"
=should be able to work how I ned it to

6-"What is the purpose of having so many tracks available in a VST insert."
=Yeah, I get it now

X-"...oh, and why no multi-output VSTI?"
=I found the workaround for this too

X-"Also is there any more significant differences between the free VST version and the paid VST version"
=Should support the developer of this awesome soft +???

XX-"Also wondering if the track count is limited in the free version?"
=Maybe a bug in the beta?I have to try again because it worked in the 4.01 release.
Track count and i/o seem to be hardwired at 16.More inputs would be nice but I can live with it.I can't for the life of me figure out how to shift the workspace view to show the other 6 tracks???

Now the only real questions I guess I'll have to figure out for myself is how stable is Usine in real use? I am already experiencing a lot of GUI rendering weirdness, especially when opening VST plugin GUI's.Is there any further discussion/pending solutions for this issue?
Is the beta stable enough for regular use?I cannot get the Mixer Track Input/Output modules working properly in 4.01e and it seems like there's a lot of nice fixes/enhancements in the beta that may be usefull...

I am anxious to stop wasting time and start building....

nofish · Unread post by **nofish** » 23 Jan 2009, 21:38

gurulogic wrote:I can't for the life of me figure out how to shift the workspace view to show the other 6 tracks???

Use the arrow left / right keys on your computer keyboard.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 23 Jan 2009, 22:12

x= multiply , it's the module A*B ( in maths dir )

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 24 Jan 2009, 21:49

nay-seven wrote:about " get midi feedback to my controller from a plugin "
i've updated the wiki page :

http://www.sensomusic.com/wiki/doku.php?id=howto:index/

nay-seven, using the above example I am able to receive the controller number at the midi out but only at a value of 0.
Any ideas what I might be missing to have the values scale from 0-127?

Also just to be clear, the paid version will allow me to build a bunch of modules into a single module or "sub-patch" ?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 24 Jan 2009, 23:30

humm, yes maybe my explanations was not enought clear...
for the multiply module ( A*B ) , B must = 127

and yes..it's the actual limitation of the free version, with the pro one , you can edit sub-patches and scripts or modify layouts
( skin )

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 24 Jan 2009, 23:50

Eurika!That does it.I didn't understand that I could click on B and enter a value.Now I just need 50-100 of these..
I'm wondering what purpose the fader menu "Remote (send out)" and dashboard button "Update Remote" serve as they don't seem to be tied to this method of parameter feedback?

btw, did you delete a post of mine entitled VST Instances Hack or did I just forget to hit post?
If so,I appologize if the content (suggesting modifying the plugin id) was inappropriate)

...and thanks for all the help.IYou have helped me make up my mind to buy the pro version.Now waiting for my gold status/licence ...

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 25 Jan 2009, 02:33

OMG, the interface builder is awesome! I will be able to build mirrors of my midi controllers that show exactly what control is assigned to what as I switch from controller preset to controller preset.This is amazing! So much for keeping my computer screen off during performance..

(sorry, I get easily excited)

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 25 Jan 2009, 10:20

I'm wondering what purpose the fader menu "Remote (send out)" and dashboard button "Update Remote" serve as they don't seem to be tied to this method of parameter feedback?

Remote (send out)" : this function is used for motorized MIDI controllers like Behringer BCF2000
Update Remote" is the same ( global way ) , it's Force Usine to send Midi messages to the connected remote devices

and i don't have delete any message....

You have helped me make up my mind to buy the pro version

so welcome..

fisto · Unread post by **fisto** » 31 Dec 2011, 13:47

gurulogic wrote:
nay-seven wrote:about " get midi feedback to my controller from a plugin "
X-"...oh, and why no multi-output VSTI?"
=I found the workaround for this too

could you please tell me how you worked around this as this Is what I'm after at the moment?
thanks

fisto · Unread post by **fisto** » 02 Jan 2012, 19:10

^ little bump

. How did you workaround the multi-output limitation in the VST-version?

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