Bonjour/hi,
i think about the possibility to microtuning by pitchbend any synthé vsti by a module who read a Scala (mucrotuning soft) file, place in a midi route.
If someone understand what i mean (not very clear, i don't know a thing about those concept, it's just curiousity).
Salutations, cyrille.
microtuning possibility?
hi, a solution i see, is using bsork's script (in addons) that read numerical values from a text file (your scl file). it will output a value.
the trick will be to convert that value to pich bend value with some math multiplier depending (is it 1/100 semitones, 1/1000...) cause
the message you ll send will be in a 0.. to 16383 range (code 1 0 to 127 x code 2 0 to 127)
then you can use create midi message module set to pich bend to send a pich bend mess relating to that value to every synth.
I guess to be precise the pitch bend range on every synth should be set to min/max -1..1 so you ll have 1/8192 semitone max tuning
presision (127x127 for 2 demitones), better tuning right source if possible maybe?
the trick will be to convert that value to pich bend value with some math multiplier depending (is it 1/100 semitones, 1/1000...) cause
the message you ll send will be in a 0.. to 16383 range (code 1 0 to 127 x code 2 0 to 127)
then you can use create midi message module set to pich bend to send a pich bend mess relating to that value to every synth.
I guess to be precise the pitch bend range on every synth should be set to min/max -1..1 so you ll have 1/8192 semitone max tuning
presision (127x127 for 2 demitones), better tuning right source if possible maybe?
Bonjour,Hi
I am sorry, i ask and then not come back...
Thanks for your reply. Not time to understand very well, but it seem that it's a good response to make it by pitch bend. What is the addons bsork's script name, ican't find it?
Salutations, cyrille.
I am sorry, i ask and then not come back...
Thanks for your reply. Not time to understand very well, but it seem that it's a good response to make it by pitch bend. What is the addons bsork's script name, ican't find it?
Salutations, cyrille.
Hi,
The patch and script can be found in the add-ons/data tools section, but the add-ons are only available to Gold Members. Guess I can put the code in this thread if you like, though.
Disregarding the maths and stuff, using pitch bend to create alternate tunings is only going to work with a lot of limitations.
Unless the instrument have some setting for disabling pitch changes after the NoteOn, it won't work on polyphonic material. If such a setting is available though, you would have to make sure that there's a pitch bend sent before each NoteOn so that chords would have to be spread out in time (like the "unpack" feature of the MIDI In module). It can work monophonically if either there's no overlap of notes (some instruments give you the possibility to not cut the release when a new note starts), or if the pitch bend is ignored during the release.
The patch and script can be found in the add-ons/data tools section, but the add-ons are only available to Gold Members. Guess I can put the code in this thread if you like, though.
Disregarding the maths and stuff, using pitch bend to create alternate tunings is only going to work with a lot of limitations.
Unless the instrument have some setting for disabling pitch changes after the NoteOn, it won't work on polyphonic material. If such a setting is available though, you would have to make sure that there's a pitch bend sent before each NoteOn so that chords would have to be spread out in time (like the "unpack" feature of the MIDI In module). It can work monophonically if either there's no overlap of notes (some instruments give you the possibility to not cut the release when a new note starts), or if the pitch bend is ignored during the release.
Bjørn S
the sampler pitch inlet has a float value displayed as an integer.
so if you create a float fade to control the pitch, you can adjust the value to, for example 1.5 to have 1/4th tone or 1.25 to have 1/8th tone,etc.
So in fact you can have micro tuning under Usine easily.
so if you create a float fade to control the pitch, you can adjust the value to, for example 1.5 to have 1/4th tone or 1.25 to have 1/8th tone,etc.
So in fact you can have micro tuning under Usine easily.
Olivier Sens
www.brainmodular.com
www.brainmodular.com
How could I have forgotten Usine's own samplers(s)! 
:/
:/Bjørn S
but u could not apply microtuning to any vsti this way?
dont know of any midi vst that can do this.
but cubase has microtuningt, that works as insert fx..
would surely make a great addon!
i guess, its well possible to write a script that reads an array of 12 pitchbend values.
to load scala files in Usine, i reckon its a job for a C++ module.
very nice idea
dont know of any midi vst that can do this.
but cubase has microtuningt, that works as insert fx..
would surely make a great addon!
i guess, its well possible to write a script that reads an array of 12 pitchbend values.
to load scala files in Usine, i reckon its a job for a C++ module.
very nice idea
I've taken a look at the Cubase doc, and if I'm not missing something essential the Micro Tuner MIDI plugin sends MIDI Tuning messages (see http://www.midi.org/techspecs/midituning.php) to instruments "capable of receiving microtuning information". Since the plugin has a parameter to select between a VSTi or "real" MIDI instrument, maybe there's something in the VST spec that's similar to the MIDI spec? I don't know...
Anyway, MIDI pitch bend used for micro tuning is fairly restricted, but creating something that reads Scala files and outputs the Bulk Tuning Dump messages shouldn't be too hard to create I guess, unless the Scala file structure is a mess (also something I know nothing about...).
Anyway, MIDI pitch bend used for micro tuning is fairly restricted, but creating something that reads Scala files and outputs the Bulk Tuning Dump messages shouldn't be too hard to create I guess, unless the Scala file structure is a mess (also something I know nothing about...
).Bjørn S
thanks for the investigation bsork.
hmmm.. i read ur post again about the polyphony thing.. yeah.. u can cannot assign 2 different pitchbend values to 2 active notes in the same moment.
the only thing i'd imagine right now is the assumption that a lot of vsti's run in omnimode, means they always accept all 16 channels (this isnt true for multitimbral vstis of course).
- not sure about this assumption?
- since pitchbend is a channel message and thereof u could have 16 differnet pitchbend values at the same time, u could assign every overlapping note to a new channel, and microtune 16 concurrent notes?
hmmm.. i read ur post again about the polyphony thing.. yeah.. u can cannot assign 2 different pitchbend values to 2 active notes in the same moment.
the only thing i'd imagine right now is the assumption that a lot of vsti's run in omnimode, means they always accept all 16 channels (this isnt true for multitimbral vstis of course).
- not sure about this assumption?
- since pitchbend is a channel message and thereof u could have 16 differnet pitchbend values at the same time, u could assign every overlapping note to a new channel, and microtune 16 concurrent notes?
I think your assumption about omnimode is correct, and the idea of running multitimbral and switching MIDI channels could work. If you're only retuning the 12 notes of the octave (like the Cubase plugin), you could do with "only" 12 MIDI channels and compute the MIDI channels by using the the note numbers (MIDI Ch = NoteNumber MOD 12 + 1).
On the other hand, I do have the impression that microtuning capabilities are popping up in more and more instruments, both in hardware and software. Not as many products yet to be called a common feature by any means, though....
On the other hand, I do have the impression that microtuning capabilities are popping up in more and more instruments, both in hardware and software. Not as many products yet to be called a common feature by any means, though....
Bjørn S
Bonjour, Hi
i see, not so simple, as it's not standardized!
Even with limitations you describe (bsork) it'll worth to be try to me.
The question is to have something that works for every vst instrument, and nothing else than pitch bend seems to achieve this. Scala file, i think can't be used directly and need a conversion...
I understand idea to spread message on several midi channel (amiga909) to get polyphony. It can be good as with midi yoke there many midi in and out available.
Salutations, cyrille.
i see, not so simple, as it's not standardized!
Even with limitations you describe (bsork) it'll worth to be try to me.
The question is to have something that works for every vst instrument, and nothing else than pitch bend seems to achieve this. Scala file, i think can't be used directly and need a conversion...
I understand idea to spread message on several midi channel (amiga909) to get polyphony. It can be good as with midi yoke there many midi in and out available.
Salutations, cyrille.
the support of Scala files seems to be a good idea.
i've investigated some more ressources..
- tobybear did a midi plugin that actually does what i had in mind
http://www.tobybear.de/p_midibag.html
but its problematic! from what i understood the problem is that pitchbend information isnt standardized. it depends on the pitchbend range of the vst. if u can change it, good. if not, microtuning via pitchbend may not work. prolly this is what bsork already figured out?
it seems, there is no way to have microtuning for every vsti.
my 2 cents:
decide which synth u want to tune
- list of microtuning vsts (support for .tun or .scl)
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/printview ... 14&start=0
- list of microtuning synths (vst and hardware) (support for .tun or .scl)
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/micro_af.html
- a module for Synthedit, and config software
http://www.12equalboresme.com/Scala2SE/Scala2SE.html // 15$
it still might be clever to do it Usine but it should be clear, we want a module/script for a specific vst, or a specific group of vst's..
for example: an addon for Usine's sampler
i've investigated some more ressources..
- tobybear did a midi plugin that actually does what i had in mind
http://www.tobybear.de/p_midibag.html
but its problematic! from what i understood the problem is that pitchbend information isnt standardized. it depends on the pitchbend range of the vst. if u can change it, good. if not, microtuning via pitchbend may not work. prolly this is what bsork already figured out?
it seems, there is no way to have microtuning for every vsti.
my 2 cents:
decide which synth u want to tune
- list of microtuning vsts (support for .tun or .scl)
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/printview ... 14&start=0
- list of microtuning synths (vst and hardware) (support for .tun or .scl)
http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/micro_af.html
- a module for Synthedit, and config software
http://www.12equalboresme.com/Scala2SE/Scala2SE.html // 15$
it still might be clever to do it Usine but it should be clear, we want a module/script for a specific vst, or a specific group of vst's..
for example: an addon for Usine's sampler
Bonjour/Hi,
thanks for your help amiga909, tobybear's microtuner works rather well with somes vst, (at least with RMXL new and good synth from Krakli). But it doesn't with soundfont sampler like ShortCircuit even with same sound load on every midi channel (i don't know why). It open scala files (hundreds), fine!
It's interesting to find new color among timbral. Many asks time invested to sound. But chromatic 15, 17, 21 are not so difficult and can be transposed in any key because of their equal intervals. Some magic tunes with a little search.
I like this forum, very constructive feel... nice.
Salutations, cyrille.
thanks for your help amiga909, tobybear's microtuner works rather well with somes vst, (at least with RMXL new and good synth from Krakli). But it doesn't with soundfont sampler like ShortCircuit even with same sound load on every midi channel (i don't know why). It open scala files (hundreds), fine!
It's interesting to find new color among timbral. Many asks time invested to sound. But chromatic 15, 17, 21 are not so difficult and can be transposed in any key because of their equal intervals. Some magic tunes with a little search.
I like this forum, very constructive feel... nice.
Salutations, cyrille.
Bonjour,
I would like to know if scala file format (http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html) can be used to transform the pianoroll interface? And so benefiting of less or more than 12 keys/octave, and all that is comming with scala.
It would be very nice on that very nice Usine.
Salutations,
Cyril
I would like to know if scala file format (http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html) can be used to transform the pianoroll interface? And so benefiting of less or more than 12 keys/octave, and all that is comming with scala.
It would be very nice on that very nice Usine.
Salutations,
Cyril
I've written several tutorials online about using Fractal Tunesmithy as a midi pitchbend filter and multiple instances of the same VST to achieve microtonal polyphony (I believe in FL back before Usine had a public existence) if you can still find it. Under the same name, runagate... probably even on KVR still somewhere
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