Interface builder needs help

soundmind · Unread post by **soundmind** » 26 Oct 2010, 22:10

hello,

I don't want this to sound harsh because I absolutely love usine in every other way but, the way usine handles snapping and item placement when building interfaces is simply not working properly. I know it has been suggested to turn off the snapping feature but this does not solve the problem completely and what if the snapping function is needed? My suggestion is to see if this issue can be solved. Are there any plans to work on this aspect of usine? Maybe a suggestion could be to make it function more like a traditional magnetic type of snapping with absolute positioning? In its current state I am afraid to unlock the interface and edit in fear of all the items losing their placement. Is anyone else having this experience?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 26 Oct 2010, 22:37

can you explain more in details in which occasion you have those problems , or maybe better try to capture a movie, i use fastone capture , works really well and make light files ( http://www.faststone.org/FSCaptureDetail.htm )( use for example a patch included in Usine ..?)

Clearscreen · Unread post by **Clearscreen** » 27 Oct 2010, 03:38

I have to admit I agree with this being kind of a problem. I was just working with a 4 grid size trying to place some stuff and often either everything else or the item I was moving would shift and throw it all out. Not sure what's going on...

Still trying to work it out though.

FarfadetFarfelu · Unread post by **FarfadetFarfelu** » 27 Oct 2010, 04:20

I also had the items lose their placement a few times when moving things in the interface panel.
It's hard to tell on what occasion this happens, it always comes as a bad surprise.

FarfadetFarfelu · Unread post by **FarfadetFarfelu** » 27 Oct 2010, 04:36

Okay i did a video, notice how the vertical Vu Meters get scrumbled when i push the block to the left at the end.

Video Example

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 27 Oct 2010, 07:30

thanks a a lot farfadet , now we have to understand what are difference s between version/configuration or others parameters cause can't reproduce this right now :
here a video :
and here the patch:
if you can check with this patch to be sure and if someone else can test too, could help us to find the problem

soundmind · Unread post by **soundmind** » 27 Oct 2010, 08:27

thanks for the videos.

FarfadetFarfelu,
That is exactly what im talking about. It does seem to happen at random here too.

nay-seven,
your video won't play in VLC.

FarfadetFarfelu's video demonstrates the problem and I will also add that you don't need to resize the patch to trigger that displacement. it also seems to happen when you just move one item and sometimes merely clicking on an item will shift everything to some degree. It has happened in all usine versions that Ive used (free and pro) and has seemed to have gotten worse with the addition of the function where the patch contents "scroll" when an item is moved beyond its bounds. In general there is no guarantee that items will remain in place especially when the patch is very complex.

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 27 Oct 2010, 09:05

i could see nay video
indeed that works on your computer and not on farfadet's one.
mmm something related to screen ratio/ resolutions on differents setups then?
here i got the pbs, but i found workarounds.

what i do for now is make rough global interface with grid 2 or 4, autoresize on, but larger than needed.
once the max target area size we need is set (contenair/patch boundaries) and global positionning done,
I disable auto-resize and set grid to 1.
then unwanted moves won't occur .
I try to avoid overlaping tricky zones such as contenair edges or caption zones and then it's fine usually.
some habit to take, but that works.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 27 Oct 2010, 10:47

for the video , try kmplayer..

i don't think it's a resolution problem cause i've test on
:
vista sp2 1680x1050
seven 32 1600x900
seven 64 1366x768 ( on this one I've also test on all resolution i can since 800x600 )

and can't reproduce it , so difficult to help , sorry

FarfadetFarfelu · Unread post by **FarfadetFarfelu** » 27 Oct 2010, 15:30

I am using grid size = 14.
I had a few problems with your patch after i set all the grid sizes to 14.
Video : Here

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 27 Oct 2010, 15:43

I saw your vid's but I can't reproduce this bug.
so I have no explanation, but it's seems very rare even for you?
You have to manipulate the control panel for 2 minutes in extreme situation, which never appears, or so rarely, in the real life?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 27 Oct 2010, 16:14

@Farfadet ; yes, not to "push the nail ", you have to admit that you have to insist to have this result (i've count 14 movement)

and i can also suggest you to change the color background of the container for bleu (for example) and set the grid to visible this way , you'll see that the space between your faders correspond to a grid of 14 and it's not when you move the size of the container but when you click inside it that Usine try to reposition the faders..?

FarfadetFarfelu · Unread post by **FarfadetFarfelu** » 27 Oct 2010, 16:36

Well, i do those manipulations in order to make the bug happen as fast as possible (40 seconds).

But like soundmind said, it happens even when being more subtle.

And like 23fx23 says, after countless hours with usine, i have interiorised strategies and workarounds for it not to happen !
I happened more to me at first when i was just moving things around without being extra careful.

But it still happens though, and just imagine spending an hour building an interface, then you move something and everything gets botched up ! The more complex the interface, the more often it might happen.

Right now, i can live with the occasionnal glitch, but i can see how some other people building more complex stuff might get annoyed. But don't get me wrong, overall, the interface builder and it's flexibility is a great feature in usine.

FarfadetFarfelu · Unread post by **FarfadetFarfelu** » 27 Oct 2010, 16:49

Okay, here is a better video, 20 seconds, no extreme manipulations :

Here you go

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 27 Oct 2010, 17:07

hé hé , yes , but now put the grid on visible as i said before and i'm sure you'll see that the space is corresponding to your size..? it's a snapping feature..?

FarfadetFarfelu · Unread post by **FarfadetFarfelu** » 27 Oct 2010, 17:20

Yes it corresponds to the grid size, the bug seems to have something to do with the snapping, it moves the vu meters when snapping another object.

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 27 Oct 2010, 19:28

I have also seen this problem. Especially annoying when a bunch of tiny interface items suddenly move a small amount.

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 27 Oct 2010, 23:05

I managed to recreate something similar to the last video, but I couldn't decide what action really made it happen. I do however have a hunch that there's something with the auto sizing and the maths involved when snapping to the grid.

I did my test with the max grid size of 20 and with the grid visible, and something that struck me is that the auto-sizing does not "snap" but changes 1 pixel at the time - at least that's what it looks like to me. If you move something to the left or above of the exisiting area, the other elements are rightly moved to the right or downwards, but then they're no longer snapped to the grid even if they keep their relative positions. Then some further manipulations can change "something" that gives this behaviour, In the video the faders suddenly get spaces between them, in my test they partly overlapped instead, but I suppose it's the same explanation behind both behaviours.

Clearscreen · Unread post by **Clearscreen** » 28 Oct 2010, 00:35

I've got the same as farfadetfarfelu's last video and I just tried with auto resize on and then off for the main grid, and it definitely happens only for me with auto resize on. And it happens all the time with auto resize on - basically stuff kind of jumps around when you move (or just when selecting) something. It can also happen when I grab a handle to resize an item.

Also, I'm on winXP if that makes any difference, and I think I'm still on v5beta-g as well, so i'll do an update to i and check it out then...

[EDIT] DOH -still happening on Version i... With auto resize on and a grid size of 4 when I click on an interface element to select it (without moving it etc) it shifts down about one grid size notch and left about two grid notches. With auto resize off everything seems to work as expected.

soundmind · Unread post by **soundmind** » 28 Oct 2010, 03:26

I also have noticed that it is related to auto resize on. But, I also noticed that if you have a sub patch with auto resize off inside of a parent patch with auto resize on then moving the sub patch around will cause its contents to shift as well. Hope this helps.

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 13 Nov 2010, 19:43

one workaround: if you lock the children, you can move the parent around without the children shifting relative to one another.

ErotiCore SteNch · Unread post by **ErotiCore SteNch** » 12 Aug 2011, 03:57

just thought i would make a small bump,as this is something i also experience happening

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