Buffered recorder sampler

[La Tenaille]

When recording a continuous note, there's a crack at the loop point.
Live looper tools use a buffer to crossfade at the loop point to avoid this.
Is it possible to implement that feature in Usine ?

[oli_lab]

if it was build-in in a sampler module it would be very easy indeed.

otherwise you could use 2 samplers modules. when the first one it at "totalTime - overlapTime" the second sampler starts and a crossfade lasting "overlapTime" is going on... at totalTime, the first sampler stops and so on...

for me the best module for that purpose would be a sampler that can record 1 sample and some "tap" modules that could read into the sample at different points just like a multitap delay. actually, a multitap delay would be good as well.

in Csound if you want a delay, you have to set up ONE buffer of the maximum size you"ll need, then you tap into this buffer at different position, just like with an old analog tape delay with multi heads.

[La Tenaille]

I thought about a 2nd decayed sampler to "fill the gap". The trouble is I'm working on a 10 samplers workspace with complexe sync. 20 samplers will be huge for CPU.
I didn't thought about using a delay module, but it means crossfading after the loop point, once the audio is recorded...

[oli_lab]

I had a go with some ideas on Usine and here are my thoughts :

1) if you want continuous sounds, you don't need to have them sync !

if zero crossing is on, there is no click. what I notice is that you need to start the continuous note before hitting rec button and continuing singing after stopping recording

if there is other sound playing on the PA at that moment it could be an issue (and a repetitive click source)

2) why not trying to sync all the parts by controlling subtle change in speed alla old school DJ ? instead of hard syncing
that could be done by mesuring time between a reference loop start point in time and another loop start. if the difference is positive then le 2nd loop should be pitch up a bit.

[La Tenaille]

Continuous sound was an example to explain my trouble, but any instrument playing a sustained note at the loop point gives the same trouble.
In another post, Nay tells me zero crossing only works with playback samples, and don't affect recording. Try to sing and hold a note while looping : the crack is here.
My loopers record different instruments (kick, bass, synth, guitare...) from 4 musicians. It must be in perfect sync and tune...

[oli_lab]

check this :
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... er%201.wkp

[nay-seven]

Great patch Oli !

[La Tenaille]

doesn't work for me, I still have a pop. A buffer seems the only way...

[FarfadetFarfelu]

+1:)

[oli_lab]

the patch I made has some sort of a buffer, I don't understand why you get a "pop"

4 musicians playing in sync is so alien to me

[FarfadetFarfelu]

The dreaded huge glitch happens at the end of the first loop.

It is needed to crossfade to the second sampler before the end of the first loop point (where the crack sound is). Duration - something i guess.

I'm sure it is possible to hack a solution with the two samplers idea but i believe this is something worth implementing to fix the issue at the source.

The sampler is simply non usable as it is ! Most people won't bother.

Regards.

[La Tenaille]

4 musicians playing in sync is so alien to me

I agree with you FarfadetFarfelu, the sound needs to be recorded a bit before hitting the record button in order to have a good crossfade. Without buffer it's not possible.

[oli_lab]

just place a slight delay before the sampler input ?

[FarfadetFarfelu]

Ok i have another problem with the sampler, using the audio record patch :

> Sampler in overdub and "play loop" modes
> Press record, press record again, cool the sampler plays automatically BUT it does not always start at the beginning of the loop !

It seems to start playing randomly at whatever point inside the loop.

[oli_lab]

check auto-restart on the sampler

[FarfadetFarfelu]

Hello again, i tried with auto-restart on and off : no change.

After i press record for the second time, sometimes it plays from the beginning of the loop, sometimes it starts wherever it wants.

[nay-seven]

tested with the record audio patch of the library:
if you first record a loop then switch to overdub mode and record again the sampler don't stop or restart but continue to play
and it's the normal feature of an overdub mode ?

if you create your own sampler patch, there's something in your patch who change this

[FarfadetFarfelu]

Hello,
I'm not doing an overdub, i'm just doing the first recording.

> Set the sampler to overdub (and loop mode).
> Press record
> The sampler is recording your sound
> Press record
> The sampler starts playing, sometimes at the beginning of the loop, sometimes elsewhere.

Then you can do an overdub.
I will try tonight to use the write mode on the first recording and then switch to overdub to see if this solves the problem...
Thank you for helping me out !

[oli_lab]

write mode on the first recording is the way to go

[FarfadetFarfelu]

Yep thanks it works fine with write on the first pass and overdub on next passes.

Oh well, back to the clicking problem.

[La Tenaille]

When recording a continuous note, there's a crack at the loop point.
Live looper tools use a buffer to crossfade at the loop point to avoid this.
Is it possible to implement that feature in Usine ?

Up

[oli_lab]

in fact if its a continuous note, you could play it forward and reverse at the end.

[La Tenaille]

Hi Oli,
I'm live looping 4 musicians real time in live situation. I need a loop playable instantly, and it seems the buffer is the only solution for smooth realtime crossfade.