Well I just picked up a new Acer Aspire P3 which is awesome. Problem is I cant seem to navigate HollyHock very well with only touch and a keyboard. I would love to see some new interface touch improvements (or could use some advice for navigating without a mouse).
Seems I cannot drag and drop from the browser, nor enter the patch mode with double tap or touch. Also would love to be able to wire up with touch. Please add improved touch interfacing for patch manipulation, definitely would dig this and working with MIDI LAN if I could navigate properly.
-S
Improved Touch Interfacing
Well I did figure I could disable touch, but it required a restart of Usine.
Now I can at least double tap to get the patch display. Along with this the browser I can every once in awhile drag and drop a module, and sometimes I can hit a wire.
Some suggestions to improve multitouch:
1. Icon or shortcut key to lock module positions in the patch area from responding to moving, any click would start wiring near the closest node.
2. A portion of the patch (led, colored corner) that shows the last selected patch if multiples opened. (For use with Open Patch Edit Icon)
3. A patch edit icon that opens the last selected patch as indicated in suggestion 2.
4. Wider response for Interface/Patch Perforation when sliding patch Edit over the rack for editing. This to make easier to adjust. Even with mouse sometimes seems a little fine line.
5.Maybe multi-touch gestures for shortcut in patch editing such as long press hold in empty area to lock module positions, and next short press to wire or select without moving the module.
6. Interface you could use arrow keys, or possibly a virtual arrow key set to shift objects for accurate positioning.
Now I can at least double tap to get the patch display. Along with this the browser I can every once in awhile drag and drop a module, and sometimes I can hit a wire.
Some suggestions to improve multitouch:
1. Icon or shortcut key to lock module positions in the patch area from responding to moving, any click would start wiring near the closest node.
2. A portion of the patch (led, colored corner) that shows the last selected patch if multiples opened. (For use with Open Patch Edit Icon)
3. A patch edit icon that opens the last selected patch as indicated in suggestion 2.
4. Wider response for Interface/Patch Perforation when sliding patch Edit over the rack for editing. This to make easier to adjust. Even with mouse sometimes seems a little fine line.
5.Maybe multi-touch gestures for shortcut in patch editing such as long press hold in empty area to lock module positions, and next short press to wire or select without moving the module.
6. Interface you could use arrow keys, or possibly a virtual arrow key set to shift objects for accurate positioning.
"Every act of creation is first an act of destruction." -Picasso
thanks for suggestionSome suggestions to improve multitouch:
the patching is very hard to do with touch only. we have to find a more global ergonomics for that. And, to tell you the truth, after 6 years of touchscreen experience, I didn't find the good solution. I'm waiting for inspiration...1. Icon or shortcut key to lock module positions in the patch area from responding to moving, any click would start wiring near the closest node.
2. A portion of the patch (led, colored corner) that shows the last selected patch if multiples opened. (For use with Open Patch Edit Icon)
5.Maybe multi-touch gestures for shortcut in patch editing such as long press hold in empty area to lock module positions, and next short press to wire or select without moving the module.
6. Interface you could use arrow keys, or possibly a virtual arrow key set to shift objects for accurate positioning.
actually the touch double click to open patch editor doesn't work properly. will be solved in the 1.02.0113. A patch edit icon that opens the last selected patch as indicated in suggestion 2.
what do you mean by "sliding patch Edit over the rack for editing"4. Wider response for Interface/Patch Perforation when sliding patch Edit over the rack for editing. This to make easier to adjust. Even with mouse sometimes seems a little fine line.
Olivier Sens
www.brainmodular.com
www.brainmodular.com
Hi Senso,
Regarding "sliding patch Edit over the rack for editing"...
When you double click the patch and open up the patch editor, the perforation where you can click and drag it to open it up wider.
I find it very difficult or impossible with touch to grab ahold of the perforation and open the patch editor bigger.
Regarding the difficulties with the ergonomics of the patch editor, without knowing the specifics regarding the underlying programming....
Is there any adjustment with the horizontal detection area for each node (IO pins) of the modules?
Having a larger detection for the pins horizontal would allow the user to guide the touch while still being able to activate the node.
This would at least provide a stepping stone to improve the touch interface. Maybe an auto route to nearest node could be implemented as well similar to how Microsoft Visio works.
Regarding an auto-route to nearest, maybe treating the IO nodes like a slider and highlighting the selected node. Possibly using two finger touch with this method:
1.Finger one applied to the left module node outputs and while pressing move up and down to highlight the source node.
2. Finger two applied to the right module node inputs and while pressing move up and down to highlight the destination node.
3. Release of fingers applies the wire between the source and destination.
Best Regards
-S
Regarding "sliding patch Edit over the rack for editing"...
When you double click the patch and open up the patch editor, the perforation where you can click and drag it to open it up wider.
I find it very difficult or impossible with touch to grab ahold of the perforation and open the patch editor bigger.
Regarding the difficulties with the ergonomics of the patch editor, without knowing the specifics regarding the underlying programming....
Is there any adjustment with the horizontal detection area for each node (IO pins) of the modules?
Having a larger detection for the pins horizontal would allow the user to guide the touch while still being able to activate the node.
This would at least provide a stepping stone to improve the touch interface. Maybe an auto route to nearest node could be implemented as well similar to how Microsoft Visio works.
Regarding an auto-route to nearest, maybe treating the IO nodes like a slider and highlighting the selected node. Possibly using two finger touch with this method:
1.Finger one applied to the left module node outputs and while pressing move up and down to highlight the source node.
2. Finger two applied to the right module node inputs and while pressing move up and down to highlight the destination node.
3. Release of fingers applies the wire between the source and destination.
Best Regards
-S
"Every act of creation is first an act of destruction." -Picasso
-
woodslanding
- Member
- Posts: 1327
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As far as patching with touch, here's a suggestion:
when you click on the center of a module, a popup menu of its outputs appears. Select one and drag it L or R. The menu is closed, and you have a cable.....
when the dragged cable is moved over a module, a popup menu of its inputs appears and you can select one for the other end of the cable..... like the menu that already appears when you end a drag in empty space.....
It does require you to patch in to out. I suppose the left and right halves of a module could display ins and outs respectively, but some modules are narrow..... maybe a nested menu, with submenus for ins and outs.... ??? More steps for every patch tho..... perhaps a modifier key for IN-to-OUT reverse patching? Not too touch friendly, I guess.
Well.... still just thinking out loud
Also, I guess you would need auto-scrolling for modules with lots of ins and outs.
when you click on the center of a module, a popup menu of its outputs appears. Select one and drag it L or R. The menu is closed, and you have a cable.....
when the dragged cable is moved over a module, a popup menu of its inputs appears and you can select one for the other end of the cable..... like the menu that already appears when you end a drag in empty space.....
It does require you to patch in to out. I suppose the left and right halves of a module could display ins and outs respectively, but some modules are narrow..... maybe a nested menu, with submenus for ins and outs.... ??? More steps for every patch tho..... perhaps a modifier key for IN-to-OUT reverse patching? Not too touch friendly, I guess.
Well.... still just thinking out loud
Also, I guess you would need auto-scrolling for modules with lots of ins and outs.
Custom Ryzen 5900x MATX build, Win10, Fireface UFX, touchscreen
Custom 2 manual midi keyboard
Usine, Kontakt, Reaktor, Synthmaster, Byome, Arturia, Soundtoys, Unify
Custom 2 manual midi keyboard
Usine, Kontakt, Reaktor, Synthmaster, Byome, Arturia, Soundtoys, Unify
ok, for info we call it "splitter"the perforation where you can click and drag it to open it up wider.
I'll study all your suggestions.
Olivier Sens
www.brainmodular.com
www.brainmodular.com
I've been starting to use stylus' for interfacing....is there any possible way to have long press functions implemented?
Specifically:
1. Browser, long press for dragging and dropping patches from the browser.
2. Long press in the patch edit window to start wiring
-S
Specifically:
1. Browser, long press for dragging and dropping patches from the browser.
2. Long press in the patch edit window to start wiring
-S
"Every act of creation is first an act of destruction." -Picasso
Here's an idea: on tap and hold on either side of the module expand the nodes underneath with zooming (kind of like Dock works on Mac) while also displaying on the side the name of the current node and then as you move around with a finger you find the desired node, release the finger and either tap on blank space (to get the usual menu when you drag connection from node to blank space) or tap and hold on the corresponding side of the module to find desired node and release to make a connection.the patching is very hard to do with touch only. we have to find a more global ergonomics for that. And, to tell you the truth, after 6 years of touchscreen experience, I didn't find the good solution. I'm waiting for inspiration...
join Hollyhock Usine Discord server: https://discord.gg/EdJarnE
Hi x.iso!
I also had thought something similar but slightly different in regards.
I'm not sure but the zooming interactivity might be a huge effort to implement for the editor?
It seems like a big programming since it doesn't already exist. The menu system sounds like a good idea, but then would have to
read every node into the menu. Currently these are controlled by the IML Templates, maybe able to extract all node names?
I know you can reference the nodes to connect with IML.
Similar to how you said left/right of module
"I think the modules should have a "mapped" area.
So say like to the left and right of the module there is a "mapped" area.
Where the finger could exist without covering the node and information of the module.
This would make the modules essentially wider...or maybe a perforated or lighter color area could be displayed to indicate options and mapped area to left/right/top etc...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Module Wiring:
1. When touch/hold the mapped area it highlights a node.
2. Moving/Dragging up and down highlights the corresponding node.. such as scrolling up and down through the highlighted nodes.
3. Second touch/tap/hold above module for fine tune. This could be a left/right or some other movement like a second tap for increment, or a simultaneous second/third tap for decrement one.
4. Lift fine select second touch and drag first touch finger left/right outside the bounds of the "mapped" area.
-This would be an area where sensitivity could be adjusted or a user option to prevent slipping up/down when exiting area.
- I can't draw a straight line very well anyway so maybe this is just for me...haha
5.This now has a selected node to pull a wire from.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Destination Module Reception:
1. Enter the mapped area of the destination module with the wire from the source.
2. As was in the the source module, up and down will highlight the nodes of the receiving module as in scrolling the highlighted nodes.
3. To fine-tune use a similar approach as the source module.
4. Some combination touch/tap...etc...could be used to enter or accept.
I am glad this conversation had come back up. The improvement to use touch to edit would be a really cool enhancement.
-s
I also had thought something similar but slightly different in regards.
I'm not sure but the zooming interactivity might be a huge effort to implement for the editor?
It seems like a big programming since it doesn't already exist. The menu system sounds like a good idea, but then would have to
read every node into the menu. Currently these are controlled by the IML Templates, maybe able to extract all node names?
I know you can reference the nodes to connect with IML.
Similar to how you said left/right of module
"I think the modules should have a "mapped" area.
So say like to the left and right of the module there is a "mapped" area.
Where the finger could exist without covering the node and information of the module.
This would make the modules essentially wider...or maybe a perforated or lighter color area could be displayed to indicate options and mapped area to left/right/top etc...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Module Wiring:
1. When touch/hold the mapped area it highlights a node.
2. Moving/Dragging up and down highlights the corresponding node.. such as scrolling up and down through the highlighted nodes.
3. Second touch/tap/hold above module for fine tune. This could be a left/right or some other movement like a second tap for increment, or a simultaneous second/third tap for decrement one.
4. Lift fine select second touch and drag first touch finger left/right outside the bounds of the "mapped" area.
-This would be an area where sensitivity could be adjusted or a user option to prevent slipping up/down when exiting area.
- I can't draw a straight line very well anyway so maybe this is just for me...haha
5.This now has a selected node to pull a wire from.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Destination Module Reception:
1. Enter the mapped area of the destination module with the wire from the source.
2. As was in the the source module, up and down will highlight the nodes of the receiving module as in scrolling the highlighted nodes.
3. To fine-tune use a similar approach as the source module.
4. Some combination touch/tap...etc...could be used to enter or accept.
I am glad this conversation had come back up. The improvement to use touch to edit would be a really cool enhancement.
-s
"Every act of creation is first an act of destruction." -Picasso
Well, you could just have two big buttons on either side of the module, which upon touching would reveal a touch-friendly context menu with list of available nodes, in nice big font and spacing, select one and just repeat the same on receiving side.
Then make a middle dot of connection a bit bigger so it's easier to hit with finger and delete or manipulate.
Oh! there also should be a version of side panel commands with icons, no text.
Then make a middle dot of connection a bit bigger so it's easier to hit with finger and delete or manipulate.
Oh! there also should be a version of side panel commands with icons, no text.
join Hollyhock Usine Discord server: https://discord.gg/EdJarnE
Now the buttons and context menus sound like they could be realizable with the current programming capabilities.
Some sort of background IML maybe search and fill context with module nodes. then selections would wire up similar to an IML template.
Question is how to get executable buttons in the patch editor on both sides of the modules and then link them to the IML execution?
This seems do-able in the context maybe of the current capabilities of the programming. A lot of the other cooler zoom, icon, etc seem to be a whole new addition graphically and would take more effort to implement. Maybe simple menu interface could be implemented in HH3, and some graphical updates in HH4...don't know but maybe DX12 would allow some improvements?
I don't have any view into the programming, but just some assumptions based on what I know.
-s
Some sort of background IML maybe search and fill context with module nodes. then selections would wire up similar to an IML template.
Question is how to get executable buttons in the patch editor on both sides of the modules and then link them to the IML execution?
This seems do-able in the context maybe of the current capabilities of the programming. A lot of the other cooler zoom, icon, etc seem to be a whole new addition graphically and would take more effort to implement. Maybe simple menu interface could be implemented in HH3, and some graphical updates in HH4...don't know but maybe DX12 would allow some improvements?
I don't have any view into the programming, but just some assumptions based on what I know.
-s
"Every act of creation is first an act of destruction." -Picasso
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