Jumpy sound from fader controlling VST effects

[flook]

I'm having an issue with using faders in a Usine patch to control some VST effects - the parameter changes from the fader are much more jumpy than what I get when changing the parameter directly from the VST GUI. This is apparent in multiple VST effects I've tried, from pitchshifters to lowpass filters. Dragging the fader up and down produces a very un-smooth sound compared to the native VST controls.

This happens on two different PCs I've tried, running Usine as a VST in both Ableton Live and Cubase as a host. I'm running the free 4.22f version and thus do not get dual core optimization, but this doesn't seem to be a performance issue so much as a fader data interpolation issue. In fact, it behaves the same when using a Usine knob control. I'm using the default "prec" (x.xxxxx) and "scale" (normal) settings for these controls. I get the same results when controlling these Usine parameters via a USB MIDI controller.

Is there anything I can do to smooth this out? This is unfortunately making my otherwise amazing live Usine FX rack rather useless.

[nay-seven]

there's a module named "smoother " in Data modules , you can try to insert it before your parameter .

but it's nor really "normal " to have such problems , have you the same in other host..?
have you try in the standalone version of Usine..?

[bsork]

Also, the "precision factor" found in the "edit layout" window has an inpact on how the fader values are updated. However, I don't think this affects MIDI control. Also remember that you can hold shift down for a finer resolution when controlling with the mouse.

BTW, in Usine, a knob is just a different looking fader, so it's not surprising that you don't notice any difference with those.

[flook]

Thanks for the replies. This behavior occurs in two different hosts I've tried - Ableton Live 7 and Cubase 5. I had actually already attempted to use the Smoother data module which didn't seem to help much now matter how I adjusted it. In fact, I'd say it mostly just made the fader changes sound even more delayed than with no smoothing at all.

The precision setting is set to the default, which seems to be the maximum precision allowed in Usine. The jumpiness is slightly diminished by holding "shift" while tweaking the fader, but this doesn't help me out when controlling effects via my MIDI controller. The jumpy sounding parameter changes can best be described as though the effect's parameter is trying to "catch up" to Usine's fader changes. Instead of a filter cutoff sweeping smoothly in real-time, it jumps between intervals as I move the fader up and down - like a more extreme "stair-stepping" effect sometimes heard on digital synth parameters.

I'll try this out in Usine standalone tonight using both VST effects and instruments to see if it behaves the same as the Usine VST. I tried a similar setup with Native Instruments Kore 2 as a VST effect/VST host last night and found that its virtual knobs controlled my effects with no jumpiness at all on the same PC, in the same host.

[bsork]

Just wondering: How are the connections between the faders/knobs and the VSTs? If you want to change the value both from a fader and the GUI, take a look in the Wiki.

[flook]

I confirmed yesterday that this problem does NOT occur in Usine Standalone. Testing the Iblit VST instrument in Standalone using the same ASIO drivers I do under Ableton Live, controlling the filter cutoff with a Usine fader/knob was silky smooth. The same test, moments later, in Usine as a VST effect in Ableton exhibited the jumpiness.

I'm connecting the faders/knobs directly to the VST inlets, for controls such as filter, pitch, etc. depending on the instrument/effect I'm using.

[flook]

I also just tested this in Cubase again on my other PC, both running Usine as a VST effect and as a VST instrument. As it seems to use the same Usine instance either way, the jumpy symptom remained in any VST instrument or effect I hosted inside Usine.

It's great that this problem doesn't exist in the standalone application, but my primary use for Usine is going to be an effects processor for my Ableton Live rig. Running Usine as a VST effect itself is mandatory.

Can anyone reproduce this problem in the Usine VST? Is it not a problem in the Pro version? I'd be happy to buy it if that's the case!

[nay-seven]

i'll test further tonight , but i've test quickly this morning :
usine vst free in Live 7.0.7 lite with my bcr20000 and no problems here...

[senso]

The option /Global Setup/Asio/refresh speed/ affects the transmission speed of data's to vst's.
Try to change its value to 5ms for example.

[flook]

You got me pretty excited for a second there, Olivier. Unfortunately, there are no such settings in the Usine VST as it's using Ableton's ASIO configuration.

But that's an interesting setting in the standalone application - is there a reason it couldn't be added as a setting in the Usine VST, since it's not strictly ASIO driver-related? Or is it? It sounds like exactly what I need: faster data transmission from faders to VST parameters.

[senso]

oups, sometime Usine is so large that I'm lost myself...

I know that it's strange to have a dependency between 'refresh speed' and vst params update. It's an historical setting, when computeurs was slow (usine is 13 years old now!). Now with modern computers it has no sense.

This small issue will be solved in the V5: just a direct refresh without latency.


But there is a small tip to solve you pb:

- go in the UsineVst directory then in /files/
- find Default-settings.ini and dbl click on it to open in a text editor (notepad)
- find somewhere the line 'INDEXrefresh speed=2'
- replace this line by 'INDEXrefresh speed=0'
- save the file.

restart your DAW and reload your vst.

et hop!!!

[flook]

That all sounded so promising...unfortunately, it did not resolve the problem. Thanks for your input but the jumpy fader input continues even with INDEXrefresh speed set to 0!

I don't have time at the moment, but perhaps I'll try to post some audio examples tomorrow of the Usine fader sound versus native VST GUI controls. Would that be of any use?

[amiga909]

couldnt reproduce the behavior with phrazor (host).
the vst GUI isnt always following perfectly but i cant hear any steps.
hmm..strange issue. the only thing i could think of is that ur patch is maybe not well built? could u make a screenshot?