sudden problem with a plug-in in a patch

fractalist · Unread post by **fractalist** » 08 Jul 2014, 00:21

Hi there,

I have been having a lot of problems to build my workspace lately, but for a few dayz I finally manage to do a patch that works correctly.. until a sudden strange behavior.

I use the plug-in Evolution from GRM, controlled with the leap motion. For this plug-in to process the sound, you have to click / activate the "evolution" button. then you can tweak its parameters.
Without any reason, the plug-in now process the sound when the evolution button is not activated and, as a "consequence", because the button is not activated, it does not tweak the sound : moving parameters doesn't change a damned thing. it processes the sound with the default parameter.
I didn't link any new incoming data to the plug-in or the patch, it's the same for days !
I rewired the patch with a new instance but I still have this problem now !
For once I had positive results, and I'm really going nuts right now what could it be ?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 08 Jul 2014, 00:39

if you click on show all parameters for this plug-in ( top part of its Gui) do you see an inlet corresponding to this evolution button..?
if yes, what's happen if you link a switch to this inlet..?

fractalist · Unread post by **fractalist** » 08 Jul 2014, 00:52

I already tried that

same s*¨t happens.

fractalist · Unread post by **fractalist** » 08 Jul 2014, 00:55

not sure if this helps understanding the problem, but this "patch" containing the plug-in is actually on the stereo-out device (because it is a master track effect I'm building here). but this shouldn't change the issue, as it was working very well until that moment

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 08 Jul 2014, 01:15

ok, i 've download the PC demo version (btw, are on PC or Mac?) but it's seems this plug-in don't answer to the inlets or array..( or it's because the demo version?)

about creating a master track, you don't need to put the patch in the device, you only need to create a rack with your master effect and drag the racks you want on its input

fractalist · Unread post by **fractalist** » 08 Jul 2014, 01:20

even crazier :
now I understand that if I do something like this in the stereout device, it will be reflected in any workspace (wouldn't it be better it it were workspace sepcific btw ?).
thing is that with other workspace, it actually works... just not in the one workspace I need for my gig.
but, it is exactly the same information that comes into the plug-in !!! (motion information from the leap motion + audio).
This is crazy, I'm cursed.

fractalist · Unread post by **fractalist** » 08 Jul 2014, 01:23

I was replying at the same time as you.
for your questions : I'm on mac. maybe it's because the demo version ?

thanks for the tips for the master track (it replies a question from my previous post).
This method will not cause any latency right ? (because buses for example were advertised as zero latency, but that's actually not the case).

fractalist · Unread post by **fractalist** » 08 Jul 2014, 01:44

SOLVED !!!!!!

after multiple comparisons... well, I found what was going on :
I happened to switch off a delay. that delay was making the sound stereo, while my guitar input is mono. when the plug-in receives a mono signal, it doesn't work. it needs to be fed in both its inputs.

I will still welcome your reply for the latency thing though.

PS : so, I lost hours because of that plug-in feature but I found a new trick thanks to that : the leap motion track cigarettes better than fingers. but actually I'm not sure if that's good in the end !

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 08 Jul 2014, 13:02

Yes, all routing between racks ( like most of Audio appz) cost a delay = your bloc size

about Leap motion, maybe better to use more light in the room than using cigarettes..?

fractalist · Unread post by **fractalist** » 11 Jul 2014, 02:39

thanx for the reply.
I know it's the case of most audio appz, but unfortunately one of the main reasons I bought yours is because it is advertised like this "A powerful real-time process management, derived from Artificial Intelligence, gives a zero-latency buses calculation. In other words, unlike most of Digital Audio Workstations, there is no additional latency for complex audio routings".....

anyway, as the biggest latency reduction possible is my point for live playing reasons, I will stick with the patch in the stereo out device to avoid extra-latency.

reasonable tips for the leap motion I guess

but too much light is bad for the health no ?

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 11 Jul 2014, 10:16

This reminds me of the long unanswered forum thread, where we ask what has happened to this goal with the AI and "zero-latency bus calculation". Please sensomusic, everyone here loves your software, but some more transparency is needed in my opinion.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 11 Jul 2014, 10:38

Thanks Ceasless, but the FAQ page answer the question and was created in November 2013..?

ceasless · Unread post by **ceasless** » 11 Jul 2014, 10:51

Okay, but it is still said to be zero latency on the information page.

"Usine add a latency of 1 bloc size. In all cases, the latency added will not exceed a bloc size."

Now this is confusing, because I was pretty sure each bus you introduce adds a latency of 1 bloc. But the way it is written in the FAQ can be understood as the bus system will never introduce a latency > bloc size.

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 11 Jul 2014, 11:07

The information page talk about general and classic use, not about exceptions...quiet normal ?

and in the faq:

"The basic rules:

If buffer size >= bloc size: Usine will not add any latency to your soundcard, and this whatever the racks routing."

fractalist · Unread post by **fractalist** » 11 Jul 2014, 14:41

for sure, there is no need to argue. better to understand how it reads from different perspectives.
to me also it was confusing, which is a good thing for you to know : for instance, you say general and classic use but having a master track is pretty normal I guess, and the "complex routing" that is mentioned encourages to think that using buses is not that complex

I purchase softwares or not according to two aspects :
* pratical : features, stability, etc..
* ethical : who did it with what spirit.
from what I read from senso (as well as the team helping here) before purchasing usine, I know it is made with really good heart and will.
. so I know that if there is a confusion, for sure it is not intentional. but it is really important for you to know how it can be read I guess.
if a big brand would have used big words such as AI but would not work the way I was lead to interpret it, believe me I would communicate that in a very "smiley-less" way

I will inquire a bit more on the settings of buffer and block size, how it affects my playing,the latency, etc..

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 15 Jul 2014, 09:19

again, the exceptions rules are about circular routings and buses, create a master rack don't add any latency

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