Looping Composing/Improvising Tool - help required

[Kaspar]

Hi!
I would like to create a composing/improvising tool wit Usine.
The problem is that I'm a complete noob and don't know where to star with this project.
It seems to be a very complicated one to be starting out with.

The following link explains my goals a little better than I can with text:
http://www.magicd.com/mpegs/POLAR.mpeg

The interface is dreadful, but you get the idea

I've also managed to mark down a list of wanted features - I think these need to be revised though as I go on:


Loop length
1) Any length, only limit should be the amount of memory (DONE)
2) Could be defined before recording by specifying the number of bars/beats
3) Could be altered after recording by setting the start/end time in bars/beats (all layers independently).
4) All layers continuously looping at their specified length (DONE)
5) Metronome (DONE)

Recording
1) Triggered by signal level
2) Start/stop with a sustain pedal (DONE)
3) Select before recording witch layer to record on (DONE)
Or possibly automatically create different layers when pressing rec/stop (then there should be a way to remove a layer if it's no longer needed.
4) Muting previous passes (option)
5) Selecting instrument for recording or having multiple inputs continuously available
instruments would mainly be - electric guitar (mic or cab sim VST), hardware synth, VST bass, VST drums (I have a keyboard and a pad-controller) (DONE)
6) Overdub option (DONE)


Mixing, effects
1) Volume, pan for each layer (DONE)
2) Mute, solo for each layer
3) Independent effects for each layer


Further options (when everything else is done)
1) Loop slicing, order randomizing etc
2) MIDI recording/looping
-----------------------------------------------



So far I have tried out a couple of patches that are a little into the direction that I need but not quite.
The patches were Live Echoplexx and MultiplayerX5.

The MultiplayerX5 seemed more suitable as it allowed adjusting the loop and selecting the layer to be recorded.
The main issues with this patch were the recording length - should be limited only by the amount of RAM and the adjusting of the loop - should be possible to do that by bars (numerical or snap).

So where to start?
Maybe modifying the behaviour of X5 would be a good place to begin this exercise?
Would the VST version be more suitable for this type of thing (possibility to record to the DAW, route to effects, render a mix etc)?
Also are there any add-ins in the bought version, that would help me to do these things?

Anything that would nudge me in the right direction would be appreciated - maybe somebody already has done something similar...

Thanks!

[senso]

All you suggest can be done with Usine.
Generally you have 2 approaches.

1) make lot's of small and simple patches and use the grid to activate them when you want.
2) create a single big/complex patch which contains all you need.

If you are a 'newbie' a recommand the first approach. Try to think clearly about your needs and start to make simple patches, each responding to a specific aspect.
After that (it can take a long time...) you could try to merge them in a single patch with sub-patches. Your previous will not be lost.

I plane to improve the basic library and add several simple looping/sampling tools.

PS: you can specify the recording length in the sample with the 'max rec time' control.

[Kaspar]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I see it makes sense to take the modular approach and construct lots of simple patches.
That way I can also start to make music with Usine sooner rather than wait until I get my patching chops up to par with the best (which may never happen).

I'll get patching then and be back when I have more specific questions - that may take a while

[Kaspar]

PS: you can specify the recording length in the sample with the 'max rec time' control.

Back already...
Can't find this control anywhere.

Also, how to set the loop length in bars, 4ths etc (now it is in %)?

BTW I'm experimenting with the Multiplayer X5 patch.

[bsork]

The "max rec time" parameter is number 4 from the bottom on the normal samplers and 7 from the bottom on the grain samplers. It's one of the parameters that aren't available as in- or outputs.

You have to do some math to set the loop or total length to any special musical value, except for cycle or 1 to 4 bars on the grain samplers which can be selected with "speedmode".

For example, to calculate the length in milliseconds for a 4th, you'd use a synchro module and a A/B module. Connect "bar dur" to A and "bar len" to B. To set a loop length equal to the length calculated in the A/B, use another A/B and divide the output of the first with "len" from a sampler module, and multiply the output of that second A/B with 100 using a A*B module to get a percentage. If you create a fader on "start pos" using cltr-drag, and then connect both the fader and the A*B to "end pos" you have a loop that's a 4th long - as long as you're not transposing it and the recording is long enough.

[moody33]

[bsork]

A screen shot was a good idea!

Kaspar, notice the two arrows/triangles at the top of the parameter list; they're for vertical scrolling. You can see the same if for example you've got too many faders etc to fit into the height available. Whether you see all of the parameters for the samplers at once depends on your screen resolution.

...and yes, it can be a bit confusing at first...

[Kaspar]

Thanks bsork and moody33!

I'll have to test these tips.

So there the max rec time was all along, while I was blindly gazing at it

[Kaspar]

For example, to calculate the length in milliseconds for a 4th, you'd use a synchro module and a A/B module. Connect "bar dur" to A and "bar len" to B. To set a loop length equal to the length calculated in the A/B, use another A/B and divide the output of the first with "len" from a sampler module, and multiply the output of that second A/B with 100 using a A*B module to get a percentage. If you create a fader on "start pos" using cltr-drag, and then connect both the fader and the A*B to "end pos" you have a loop that's a 4th long - as long as you're not transposing it and the recording is long enough.

I have a problem - for some reason I can't connect the "bar len" of "Local Sync" module to B of A/B.
But I could connect it to "bar led"... Is this right?

If I would like the length to be reflected on the "Wave Display", should I connect the fader to its start/end pos instead?

Sorry if my questions seem silly, but I'm following these instructions line by line with only a vague understanding of each step.


Also one additional question:
How to select via MIDI which of the samplers in a MultiplayerX5 starts recording?
I would like to use a Sustain pedal to switch rec on/off, but before I would have to select to which sampler the on/off goes.




PS: There really should be a search function in the Browser - I have a hard time finding the required modules.

[bsork]

I have a problem - for some reason I can't connect the "bar len" of "Local Sync" module to B of A/B.
But I could connect it to "bar led"... Is this right?

You're probably trying to connect the "bar len" input to B - not the output. Inputs are to the left of the modules, outputs to the right, but if a parameter is both the name is located to the left.

If I would like the length to be reflected on the "Wave Display", should I connect the fader to its start/end pos instead?

Yes. In my example, I forgot to mention a not very obvious thing, namely that by connecting both the fader and A*B to the same input, the values add up. Using an A+B module would have been clearer.

How to select via MIDI which of the samplers in a MultiplayerX5 starts recording?
I would like to use a Sustain pedal to switch rec on/off, but before I would have to select to which sampler the on/off goes.

You could use a Data/Dispatcher module to choose which of the sub-patches goes into record. Connect the "out 1", "out 2", etc to the "REC" on the sub-patches. Ctrl-drag from "select" to create a fader and change the max value to 5, and create a Interface Design/Switch module that you connect to "in" on the dispatcher, and turn on "set to 0". MIDI assign the CC of your choice to the select fader and the sustain pedal CC to the record switch.

[Kaspar]

You're probably trying to connect the "bar len" input to B - not the output. Inputs are to the left of the modules, outputs to the right, but if a parameter is both the name is located to the left.

Well that's what I thought, but there's only a "bar led" output, not "bar len", Is this right?

Anyway, here's my current situation:
http://www.kaspartorn.eu/Usine/MultiPlayerSub.png

You could use a Data/Dispatcher module to choose which of the sub-patches goes into record. Connect the "out 1", "out 2", etc to the "REC" on the sub-patches. Ctrl-drag from "select" to create a fader and change the max value to 5, and create a Interface Design/Switch module that you connect to "in" on the dispatcher, and turn on "set to 0". MIDI assign the CC of your choice to the select fader and the sustain pedal CC to the record switch.

That one worked like a charm, thanks!
Now I'll just experiment replacing the fader with some sort of "radio button" type solution.

Also, how to make a sustain pedal behave as a toggle?

[bsork]

The "bar len" output is the one between "cycle dur" and "bar pos" on the synchro module, but I can see from your screensshot that you've opted for the opposite soloution; letting the recording govern bar lenght/tempo, not the other way around.

To make the MIDI learn toggle, take a look at the context menu (the one which pops up when using the right mouse button on the control), and you'll see the "toggle" option.

BTW, there are no radio buttons among the interface design modules, but the List Box (Switches collection) should do the trick. Just remember that all the list box varieties sends out integer values starting at 0, not 1.

[senso]

The next version will contain several new basic sampling tools. Will be a good starting point.

[Kaspar]

The "bar len" output is the one between "cycle dur" and "bar pos" on the synchro module, but I can see from your screensshot that you've opted for the opposite soloution; letting the recording govern bar lenght/tempo, not the other way around.

I didn't exactly opt for this solution. If it came out differently to what you suggested, then it's a mistake.

So that's why I didn't find the bar len, as it is without a label...

I'll try again if I can make this work.

[Kaspar]

The next version will contain several new basic sampling tools. Will be a good starting point.

Nice to hear!

Any estimate when the next version will be out?


Although it's a slow start, my patch is beginning to be usable with the help from you guys.

Just bear with me a little while

[senso]

very soon!!