HID-Midi Controller Question

[Taysete_DJ]

Hello all ,

I have a Gemini Ctrl Six controller .. Is designed only for Virtual Dj ,Gemini's Groove and Traktor (i think)

And its suposed to be a midi controller , but no , is a HID controller ..

I dont know what kind of HID signal uses , but that are not the same as joystick's or keyboard ,,,

The matter is , i cannot use this Gemini as a midi controller , i have test many programs to convert HID signal to Midi but no luck...

So before i lose time , searching info and buying things , i want to ask ,,

Usine can convert this special HID signal to midi ?



This Gemini have a very comfortable knobs and faders , also the buttons are good .

Just the audio quality of this Gemini is very bad , so thats why i want to use that controls... if possible ..



thanks in advance for all the help

[nay-seven]

Have you tried the hid module..? what's happen if you add an array module to his output
( you have to find the good number in the console first)

[Taysete_DJ]

Have you tried the hid module..? what's happen if you add an array module to his output
( you have to find the good number in the console first)

[img align=c]http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... device.jpg[/url]

No , im searching it now ,but i cant find it

where i can find it?

thanks nay

[nay-seven]

In modules/interface control
and you can also use the search function of the browser ( white tab under the rescan)

[percuson]

for finding the HID Module:

open the "browser" in usine
Go to modules -> Interface control -> HID device
drag and drop in an empty patch
click on the red outlet of the HID module and choose display or set array
thats it....
for finding the number of the device, goto Global Setup and activate "debug mode"
plug in your gemini and usine should show the number in the console (upper right in usine)
set this number in the HID module and try it out.

maybe it's necessary to set the "max" in the array module to 255 (I don't know really about the value...try it out)
now you can see the values coming from your gemini in the array (left side in the patch window)

[Taysete_DJ]

oooh thanks i didnt see that , how im so noob ? xD

merci beaucoup nay !

[percuson]

nay was a bit faster

[Taysete_DJ]

for finding the HID Module:

open the "browser" in usine
Go to modules -> Interface control -> HID device
drag and drop in an empty patch
click on the red outlet of the HID module and choose display or set array
thats it....
for finding the number of the device, goto Global Setup and activate "debug mode"
plug in your gemini and usine should show the number in the console (upper right in usine)
set this number in the HID module and try it out.

maybe it's necessary to set the "max" in the array module to 255 (I don't know really about the value...try it out)
now you can see the values coming from your gemini in the array (left side in the patch window)

Ok , i need my time now to learn this but yea , that sounds good

If i can do a translation for all faders knoobs and buttons to midi then thats fantastic

Thank you both ,

[Taysete_DJ]

[67] idx=12 Dispositivo compatible con HID
[68] idx=13 Dispositivo de teclado HID
[69] idx=14 Dispositivo de teclado HID
[70] idx=15 Mouse compatible con HID
[71] idx=16 Mouse compatible con HID
[72] idx=17 Dispositivo de juego compatible con HID
[73] idx=18 Dispositivo de juego compatible con HID


Thats it ?

So must be 72 and 73 because that are the last plugged

;D thanks i will do test and then send feedback

thank you soo so much

[percuson]

ba aware... maybe you get usine addicted

have fun when trying out !

[Taysete_DJ]

In the array module , for testing , what module i must use to send midi ?

Because i cant see any data , even selecting the hid number of my mouse ,,

witch output in array module i must use to send the midi data?

[nay-seven]

mouse HID of mouse don't work, try to add some button to a fader and test from 0 to..( in the console you show, it's not 73 to use but id=18)
then you'll have to experiment, depending of the values your interface send, here an example

[percuson]

first of all, you have to see the data changes in the array module ( like in Nays screenshot on the left side val 0-4) If you don't see datas changing there, when moving a fader etc, there is no data coming in.
My mouse also doesn't work, but my joystick... It seems that not every HID works...

If you get data, you have to figure out, which fader or knob sends data in which way. The corresponding blue outlets in the array module send the data you see on the left side, when you clicked on the array module. You can manipulate the outcoming data of the array module as you want with other modules. For creating midi data you should use the create midi module. Maybe it's a bit complicated to get correct midi data. You have to try...
(If you click on a cable, you see the data flow on the right side of the patch window...)

[percuson]

... again faster

[Taysete_DJ]

i see anytime i plug or unplugg the numbers change ... well now i discovered what is the name of the hid


First was

[225] idx=12 Dispositivo compatible con HID
[226] idx=13 Dispositivo de teclado HID
[227] idx=14 Dispositivo de teclado HID
[228] idx=15 Mouse compatible con HID
[229] idx=16 Mouse compatible con HID
[230] idx=17 Dispositivo de juego compatible con HID
[231] idx=18 Dispositivo de juego compatible con HID

Then ;

[383] idx=14 Dispositivo de juego compatible con HID
[384] idx=15 Dispositivo de juego compatible con HID
[385] idx=16 Dispositivo compatible con HID
[386] idx=17 USB AUDIO MAIN C-Media Electronics Inc. Dispositivo de control del consumidor compatible con HID
[387] idx=18 USB AUDIO PHONE C-Media Electronics Inc. Dispositivo de control del consumidor compatible con HID

First was id 12 , then id 16

IF the ID changes all the time what can i do?

[percuson]

... don't unplug when trying...
detect the right ID automatically should be quite complicated.
The most important question is, if you can see incoming data in the array if you set to the right ID....

[Taysete_DJ]

... don't unplug when trying...
detect the right ID automatically should be quite complicated.
The most important question is, if you can see incoming data in the array if you set to the right ID....

No , there isnt any change when selecting the ID

Im sure now the name of the hid is just : Hid Compatible interface " Dispositivo compatible con HID"

[percuson]

Did you try the other IDs?

[Taysete_DJ]

Did you try the other IDs?

Now i did this :

Unplug my gemini : open usine , look all names off all the ID of the HID devices , then i closed usine

Plugged my gemini again and then go back to look the ID names in usine :

My gemini uses that 3 HID devices;

idx=10 USB AUDIO PHONE C-Media Electronics Inc. Dispositivo de control del consumidor compatible con HID (the phones Soundcard)

idx=11 USB AUDIO MAIN C-Media Electronics Inc. Dispositivo de control del consumidor compatible con HID (Main soundcard)

idx=12 Dispositivo compatible con HID (this is sure the controller)

Im sure now the id is 12 i tested many times and always is the same id 12 , i just need to plug the gemini before start usine

The other Hid devices are my keyboard ,mouse ,touchscreen , etc

[percuson]

strange behavior.....
the viewed ID changes.
assign a fader to the HID and move the fader.
the console shows the new IDs. Duble click on the Console to see all. Maybe you should test ID 11...

[Taysete_DJ]

okay now i know its not working (and the cause) as you say before some hid dont work ...

I do the example as nay posted upper ..

select the id 12 of my gemini

then opened virtual dj and then the midi message appears .. but just at loading the virtual dj , when the programs load then the inputs are busy and no more signal

So that means , this gemini needs some plugin or something to start , because have lights in buttons etc..

I think i will give up on this , because thats a work for a programmer , and im a noob at all

xDD

So sorry for this waste of time , and many many thanks for your help

[percuson]

No problem...

I was not really clear...
When I tried out with a joystick When pluggin in, Usine told me, that the joystick is ID 1 and my mouse ID 0
But it didn't work. The correct ID for the joystickwas 0. I connected a fader to the HID module (like in Nays example, but without the increment anb decrement buttons). Then when moving this fader, the console shows the connected HIDs again. And you may wonder, Now it shows Mopuse on ID2 and Joystick at ID 1.
It seems that Usine doesn't display the correct ID when pluggin in...
So maybe you give it a try again.....

If you wanna check out the messages coming from your Gemini you could try "USB Monitor".
It can be found here: http://www.hhdsoftware.com/Downloads/usb-monitor
It has a special view for HID Devices. Maybe it helps...

[nay-seven]

Thanks for the software percuson, could be useful

and you're right about id number, that's why i ask to test all number from 0 to...

[Taysete_DJ]

No problem...

I was not really clear...
When I tried out with a joystick When pluggin in, Usine told me, that the joystick is ID 1 and my mouse ID 0
But it didn't work. The correct ID for the joystickwas 0. I connected a fader to the HID module (like in Nays example, but without the increment anb decrement buttons). Then when moving this fader, the console shows the connected HIDs again. And you may wonder, Now it shows Mopuse on ID2 and Joystick at ID 1.
It seems that Usine doesn't display the correct ID when pluggin in...
So maybe you give it a try again.....

If you wanna check out the messages coming from your Gemini you could try "USB Monitor".
It can be found here: http://www.hhdsoftware.com/Downloads/usb-monitor
It has a special view for HID Devices. Maybe it helps...

Thank you both , i will do more tests today , i will try all the ID's and also that software you say..

Thanks

[Taysete_DJ]

Thanks for the software percuson, could be useful

and you're right about id number, that's why i ask to test all number from 0 to...

Hey NAY !! after long time ... THANKS AGAIN

i figured out again how to solve this old problem .. and i tryed again this morning... i read again the whole post and tryed again all steps

And i got IT !!

The problem was i didnt seem to find the good ID

but now i did it !! ,, i can transform succesfully all faders , knobs , rotatorys and wheels to work as midi !!

but now i have a trouble to finish it ...

the buttons are the same value and there is just a Pression change , like this ;

Play , Pause , pitch bend, CUE, and Cue SET Buttons are the same HID value ,
CUE set 3 1
CUE set 2 2
CUE set 1 4
Pitch bend - 8
pitch bend + 16
Play is pression 32
Pause is pression 64
Cue is pression 128 (max pression)

There is any way to detect the value position so i can make a single button for any different position for the same value ?

i need to save my gemini's mixer is a nice controller

it will will be so funny and cheap solution for my controller , instead of going to the trush xD

[nay-seven]

great news

and yes , most HID works this way, so you can use maths/logical modules like the A=B
here an example with your play switch:

[Taysete_DJ]

great news

and yes , most HID works this way, so you can use maths/logical modules like the A=B
here an example with your play switch:

http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... odules.png

Okay thaks so much! I was sure in time i can find a solution

lets do some maths

xD

[Taysete_DJ]

Solved is working so nice !

my mixer is saved to be on recicle byn

thanks NAY !

yeaah

[Taysete_DJ]

Hello ! how are you guys ? i hope you are good !!..

Now i did some advances in my work , it will be a really nice mixer , but i still having 2 big problems ...

1 - doing buttons I can only seem to send Midi Note OFF messages only... i think i must add another send , but i dont know how to send note On , is not working (i have tested Deckadance to use function buttons , but for example if i use CUE as only recieve note OFF is not working 100% ) i i think all buttons must be in toggle mode ...

2 - Jog Wheels are not sending the good parameter ( it sends an absolute CC between 0 - 255 ) but it must work as an ENCODER

I think after all help you giving to me , i must invite to all of you to a beer

I will try to upload my project here , also when finished , so anyone can use his Gemini's as a real midi controller , instead of terrible HID

[Taysete_DJ]

share image
here is the project http://dfiles.eu/files/1rr8f79gs

[nay-seven]

I really don't understand your patch, here how i see the patch:
Download

when you receive the value 128, for example, the switch is ON and send a note ON message, when OFF its send a Note OFF message ( and each switch send a different note number no..?)
for the fader , i 've add a conversion example with the sub patch scale (modules /data/data manipulation) and this fader send a control change message

And please avoid those deposit files system with pub, use the forum uploader

[Taysete_DJ]

I really don't understand your patch, here how i see the patch:
Download

when you receive the value 128, for example, the switch is ON and send a note ON message, when OFF its send a Note OFF message ( and each switch send a different note number no..?)
for the fader , i 've add a conversion example with the sub patch scale (modules /data/data manipulation) and this fader send a control change message

And please avoid those deposit files system with pub, use the forum uploader

sorry i have found out the problem of note OFF / ON

It was the value of OFF and ON

on must be 1
off 0

i still having a problem but now is just the wheel message , (the main two jog wheels for scratch)

but i hope it will be easy to fix out ,

Thanks so much for your help ! without your help this wasnt possible for me

PD : maybe is my internet explorer but i dont find the upload bar

[nay-seven]

for the 2 jog wheel, best practice is to analyses the data incoming,, i suggest you to read the patching tutorial.

about the uploader here the help page in the tips section

[Taysete_DJ]

for the 2 jog wheel, best practice is to analyses the data incoming,, i suggest you to read the patching tutorial.

about the uploader here the help page in the tips section

Jog wheels actuates like that ;

If i turn Jog Right :

Whatever the value is ,the value starts counting up +1 value (0-255) Infinite loop (every time reaches 255 starts to 0 again)


If i turn left :

The same but inverse it counts -1 value

So if i use the wheel in Deckadance the wheel just keep going forward and backward in a infinite loop process no matter if turn left or right

thanks for your help , this wheel part seem to be hard to fix

Download the project Gemini CTRL SIX Midi Driver Beta 1 Problematic wheels are : PLATO A , PLATO B , TURNE ( Turntable A , B and Filebrowser)

[Taysete_DJ]

well by the way the project is nearly finish , i just need to fix up this wheels

all the other things are working good

Except the Lights , im sure is possible also to make them work , but thats too much for me , im happy if all midi data work

[nay-seven]

not easy to test without the machine , but you can limit the jog wheel action this way ?
when value is equal or superior to 255 i stop the flow, and same if value is inferior or equal to 0:

[Taysete_DJ]

not easy to test without the machine , but you can limit the jog wheel action this way ?
when value is equal or superior to 255 i stop the flow, and same if value is inferior or equal to 0:
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... values.png

I think i need to change the value this way :

when it reaches 255 to start counting - 1

or when reach 0 to start counting +1

so i mean i dont want the jump from 0 to 255 or viceversa

i really need your help can you add a example into this project Gemini CTRL SIX Midi Driver Beta 1

[Taysete_DJ]

not easy to test without the machine , but you can limit the jog wheel action this way ?
when value is equal or superior to 255 i stop the flow, and same if value is inferior or equal to 0:
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... values.png

IF i do as you say the wheel keeps going back ( in deckadance) so the jump is working thats a good find but now to fix it at all i need to add a conditional

if value is increasing = send invert value
if value is decreasing = send normal val

[nay-seven]

that's why i propose you to read the patching tutorial...
chapter 2, you'll find something about a module named 1-X

[Taysete_DJ]

that's why i propose you to read the patching tutorial...
chapter 2, you'll find something about a module named 1-X

I had a problem loading the 1-X module , and i messed up with it

i have triyed loading several times the 1-X module , but i cant seem to get it to work , i think my Usine Installation is corrupted sience i have installed too many version in my pc and i mixed up the libraryes from old versions etc ...

I wont buy any new version (yet) as i dont have a good economic situation, so i must stay with the stuff i have...

So finnally with the wheel i didnt finish it , but i do a kind of "patch" , now with a knoob i can switch the code to turn the wheel up or down

but that isnt the plan ... i must fix it in a future...

[Taysete_DJ]

Im doing two versions for use two different type of midi outputs to work separately in FL and Deckadance

the one im doing for FL studio is quite different than the deckadance one witch i use for mixing songs etc

But in FL i use it for composing etc... so controls are diffferent for this one

Well i got an idea , i think (maybe) it will be possible using arrays inputs with usine to turn on/off the lights of my Gemini?

and also i want to know if experimenting with inputs this can be dangerous?

and ...

If the button Cue is for example Val 13 , 128 pression then , the input will be the same?

Thanks in advance , and im so so happy that i have a "new controller" xD

after 3 years that i got it and now seems a new machine

[nay-seven]

i suppose the only you can remote your hardware is by midi..? for example val 13 is maybe the note 13 and 128 correspond to note OFF message
Best way is to use a mid create module to send message ( CC , note on/off ) and try different values ( no risk)

[Taysete_DJ]

i suppose the only you can remote your hardware is by midi..? for example val 13 is maybe the note 13 and 128 correspond to note OFF message
Best way is to use a mid create module to send message ( CC , note on/off ) and try different values ( no risk)

yes i use the Remote to send midi and LoopMidi to route midi

okay i will test it out later and post back the results

thanks

[Taysete_DJ]

Nay i have a question ..

I tried using the module 1-X after reinstalling usine all went good now but the module 1-X doesent do what i need to do ...

I will try to explain better my problem ...

The required signal in deckadance must be a value between 0-127

the problem is the wheel of my gemini just keep jumping from 127 to 0 or from 0 to 127 (when reverse)

So if i turn my wheel right its just counting +1 , until 127 then starts to 0 again

and if i turn left is -1 val , until 0 then starts to 127

I need the wheel change to this way :

If i turn left i want to make -1 val message until 0 , then send -1 message , but stay in 0 val.
If i turn right , +1 val. , until 127 , then +1 , but stay in 127..

maybe there is some way to make a knob or something to just count when i go value up or down ( +1 or -1 ) and make a limitation=?

Or what can i do ?

This is my last problem with the wheel if you can help me i will not disturb you anymore .. heheh

I really appreaciatte your help , thank you so much

[Taysete_DJ]

hello Nay i have tryed all the maths codes and everything i tested but no luck ... can you do me a little demostration in a .pat , i really need help

and about the lights i triyed sending the same value as the outputs in the same inputs arrays in the hid module

but that just make the outputs not avaible...

maybe i can just convert the midi input to Hid in the array input ? if then , what module you suggest me to use?

Im thinking to make a Toggle buttons to send Midi CC to use in my DAW and it will be nice if i can make the lights pop out when i press the buttons ON ...

[nay-seven]

here a try ...?
when your entry go from 0 to 127 then 0 to 1 and inverse

Download

[Taysete_DJ]

here a try ...?
when your entry go from 0 to 127 then 0 to 1 and inverse

Download

OH MY GODNESS !!!

can i invite you to some wiskey or vodka ?

or...

can i send you a pro+*ti*+te to suck your .. ? xD

ahahha

IS WORKING MAN !!! you are the bestttttttt !!

seriously thanks :rolleyes:

you saved my money !!! and my mixer !!

[nay-seven]

Thanks for your propositions ( hmm no comments.. ) glad to find the good way,
have fun