Differentiate between MIDI Devices in Learn/Remote system (and filter)

[captain caveman]

Hi

I have 4 MIDI controllers (inc Alphatrack), so the "all controllers treated as one for the Learn system" paradigm in Usine (and Reaper, and FL Studio) isn't ideal. Cubase deals with the same message sent on two different controllers as two separate things (Quick Controls vs Generic Remote on different MIDI devices).

My 88 note keyboard is fixed to channel 1 so the channelising option isn't available if I want to use a few low keys to trigger things. If I want to use one, I'd need to make sure that I am not using that same note/CC on the other controllers for anything else. I'd also need to filter that note using a plugin in every patch that keyboard plays within the workspace.

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Ideally, to solve this, in the Patch and Global Remote window there should be 2 extra columns:

- Device (with default Any option) and

- Filter (with Pass/Eat options, default Pass)

Nothing would therefore change for people with existing setups.

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Viola - people with multiple MIDI controllers can go mental with the learn system and not worry about conflicts.

Sorry for being the "n00b with the feature request", but it is the only thing that isn't allowing me to flow.

Merci,

Paul

[senso]

In the latest version you can set a particular MIDI channel of each devices.
See setup/MIDI in
I think this will solve you pb? it's designed exactly for that!

[captain caveman]

edit: just saw it.

[captain caveman]

Hi sorry for the quick reply earlier, I had to run.

Yes that solves half of the issue.

The other half involves filtering out MIDI used for controlling other things. I know that with other sequencers I need to channelise MIDI data used for control and filter out that channel. That is of course possible with Usine. However, since Usine can be used as a live tool and it feels more like a performance tool/instrument I think it would be still be great to be able to filter out notes/CCs when they are assigned to a control button.

For example I can assign different loops in the MIDI Looper to the bottom most keys of my 88 note fixed channel keyboard. If I want to use the rest of the keyboard to play another track(s), then the notes used to trigger the loops are played on the other instruments.

Again, I could put plugin to filter out the notes in the patches, adding notes to the patches as they are assigned to other things, but it's not very spontaneous.

I hope you can see how this would increase the awesomeness of Usine from 99.3% to at least 99.306%.

Thanks for reading.

[bsork]

With some kind of a "MIDI Master" patch you could avoid having to enter filters in every patch. Both in the add-ons and the MIDI Utility pack you can find examples of filters and ways of distributing MIDI data either to different busses or through rechannelizing and send the data as internal MIDI. Maybe the new MIDI matrix can be something useful as well, I haven't checked it yet.

However, I don't think you'll find exactly what you're looking for... I was wonderiong if I should piece together a script for something like this. Some ideas:

- Number of outputs defined as constant, so it's easy to add or subtract to get the number you need.
- For each output:
-- On/off
-- Channel out
-- Note range
-- Transpose
-- CC range (ignoring CC 64 - sustain)
-- Transmit CC64?
-- Transmit Pitch Wheel?
-- Transmit Channel Aftertouch?

It shouldn't be too hard to do. What do you think?

[ErotiCore SteNch]

i havent used my midicontrollers with usine yet(i have both a novation launchpad and a nocturn)
but bsorks idea sounds really usefull

[captain caveman]

I dunno, it would certainly be a handy patch to have around anyway.

I've written a few VST plugins myself, including one that shares transpose information around instances (using the IPlug framework). It would be possible for me to write a plugin to keep track of learned messages and share them with other instances that would filter them.

That doesn't seem as attractive or optimal as having an automatic filter built in to Usine though. I think it makes perfect sense for a live tool and would enable easier (for me at the very least) free form jamming and putting stuff together.

Something actually in the remote window, a global option, another MIDI input module that filters learned stuff, or the existing MIDI input module with an extra "no controls" pin to connect to an input would free up some diminishing brain waves to concentrate on the music IMO.

[senso]

As you have probably noticed, one of the main idea behind Usine is to have patches independents from hardware devices.
There is no device references in patches, patch remotes, workspaces, but only access to virtual what we call "virtual devices" activated in the setup.
From my point of view, it's a very powerful in this way.
So Patch remotes, will probably never have references directly to a specific hardware.

I'll think about your suggestion, but another goal for the sensomusic team is to maintain the setup and midilearn engine as light as possible. Your suggestion will increase the CPU load for all users to solve a very specific problem, which can be solved by a simple patching.
so?

[captain caveman]

As you have probably noticed, one of the main idea behind Usine is to have patches independents from hardware devices.
There is no device references in patches, patch remotes, workspaces, but only access to virtual what we call "virtual devices" activated in the setup.
From my point of view, it's a very powerful in this way.
So Patch remotes, will probably never have references directly to a specific hardware.

Thanks very much for your reply.

I understand that now, and the option to channelise MIDI devices in Setup > MIDI In you pointed out to me essentially separates them just now. That solved the first part of my request, merci beacoup!

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The 2nd part of my request was that messages used to learn things should not be sent on to synths/patches.

Two examples:

- I have an Axiom 49 keyboard. The buttons are learned to some of the lowest notes on Ch 16. The main keyboard is set to Channel 1. Now with the channelise option in Setup > MIDI In, it is all channelised to Ch 1. So when use a button to control something using the Learn system, the note is passed through to the synths using that input.

- My SL-990 is tied to Ch 1. If I want to use some keys not used in the tune to learn something, again those notes are passed through to synths/patches.

I think that maybe an extra option in the "filter" section of the MIDI In module....


.... or maybe another new module that filters....

- any message used to control something in Usine
-- that is coming from the same channel of the virtual input used in that track

.... that could be connected after the MIDI In module in patches would solve the "issue" without costing any CPU cycles if not used.

---------------------------------------

I think it's an awesome idea that would increase the ability to go crazy with Usine without having to plan things like we have to do in other sequencers.

Less planning, more jamming,

[nay-seven]

In modules/midi/midi tools you can find a split script which can solve a part of the problem..?
this way you separate low notes from others
an other solution would be to buy a cheap midi controllers for buttons..?

[captain caveman]

Thanks nay-seven, yes that's certainly an option for using a range of notes for control input. It isn't so good for doing single notes on a per-workspace basis.

Another issue that this request would address is learning a fader tied to a CC and having it automatically filtered, stopping preventing the possibility of a physical fader controlling a Usine parameter and a hardwired link to a synth parameter when only one is required.

Again, this is possible to stop by using a CC filter to filter individual or ranges of CCs.

Please don't take my request as a criticism of Usine in any way. All sequencers behave this way. I have always thought that if a controller is being used to control something in any sequencer it should be taken out of the MIDI input stream. For example. it causes problems with synths that have controls that are pre-learned to fixed CCs for example when that CC is used to control something else (unless channelised and/or filtered before the synth). They can get recorded in piano rolls when they aren't doing anything there etc.

It makes perfect sense to me, especially for a live tool like Usine, but maybe that just means I am crazy.

[nay-seven]

No problems with you're suggestions and you're not crazy, but you can trust Senso when he say it's not actually a cpu friendly solution.
and be sure we keep this suggestion in mind anyway.

[captain caveman]

Thanks!

Just to 100% clarify since there are concerns about CPU usage, the feature request is not about seeing MIDI Devices separately any more since the separation is covered by the Global Setup > Midi In > channelise option.

The revised feature request is now.......

- an extra option in the Filter options of the MIDI Input module to filter events recorded in the Remote windows.

or

- another module that filters out control messages (to be placed in a patch after the MIDI Input module)

Merci beaucoup!

[stubish]

you're doing better than me! I can't even get midi into a vst for some reason.