I have been experimenting to see if it would be possible for me to migrate to using just Usine, not Usine vst hosted and so
I have just been playing around with the midi clock in and out patches in Usine and for some reason the sync feels a bit flimsy to me, especially under higher cpu load and when changing tempo and I still feel like I get better sync results from both Live and Reaper .
What sort of experiences does anyone else have when working with Usine and midi clock sync? Does it tend to be quite reliable and consistant under most circumstances or does it still leave something to be desired? Does anyone have any tricks up their sleeves for ensuring always tight syncronization with Usine?
Thanks...
anyone syncing hardware to / from usine?
Hmmm...well, one of my findings is that my machinedrum is picking up the tempo from Usine in doubletime but the spectralis gets it right,
and this is regardless of whether I use the send midi clock patch or the pizmidi midi out/clock vst that detects host tempo and sends midi clock directly to a midi port.
Also I am finding that midi clock can only be sent on midi out 1? Maybe I would be better off syncing Usineto hardware?
and this is regardless of whether I use the send midi clock patch or the pizmidi midi out/clock vst that detects host tempo and sends midi clock directly to a midi port.
Also I am finding that midi clock can only be sent on midi out 1? Maybe I would be better off syncing Usineto hardware?
generally the sync is not perfect but works in most situations.
I plan to change the time clock sync and create a buit-in module or integrate directly it in the setup for a better accuracy.
you can change the midi out device in the mixer out (tab midi)
I plan to change the time clock sync and create a buit-in module or integrate directly it in the setup for a better accuracy.
you can change the midi out device in the mixer out (tab midi)
Olivier Sens
www.brainmodular.com
www.brainmodular.com
in my experience syncing hardware to a computer is generally troublesome. hardware only sync is just better, imho.
suggestions:
- get a decent midi interface. elektron recommends: http://www.elektron.se/products/?sProd= ... e=overview
- try to slave usine (hw device as master)
i dont know why u get a double bpm. could it be your machinedrum accidentaly follows 2 clock signals at once? (maybe cause internal sync is on)
suggestions:
- get a decent midi interface. elektron recommends: http://www.elektron.se/products/?sProd= ... e=overview
- try to slave usine (hw device as master)
i dont know why u get a double bpm. could it be your machinedrum accidentaly follows 2 clock signals at once? (maybe cause internal sync is on)
For what it's worth, I have the opposite experience; that it is generally better to have the computer/host as master and any external bits of gear as slave.
Frankly I haven't used Usine much as a master for external gear, just tested that it works with an old beat box, but I've used Usine as a clock master for Reason (via Maple Midi), and that works ok.
About the double timing: Did you try both boxes with the same MIDI connection? In case you have several MIDI devices after another, there's a chance that one may merge the incoming data with their own generated data. I think I experienced something like that years ago.
Frankly I haven't used Usine much as a master for external gear, just tested that it works with an old beat box, but I've used Usine as a clock master for Reason (via Maple Midi), and that works ok.
About the double timing: Did you try both boxes with the same MIDI connection? In case you have several MIDI devices after another, there's a chance that one may merge the incoming data with their own generated data. I think I experienced something like that years ago.
Bjørn S
yes, bsork, remember of having something like this too.. was caused by a midi feedback loop (e.g. if machinedrum receives+sends from computer, u gotta filter incoming clock messages in usine).
however, when i got time i still look for integrating a doepfer schaltwerk (8*16 stepseq). this little cur has a very weak timing and neither slave nor master mode worked with usine (or any other soft). got good results with slaving an akai asq-10 sequencer (via MTC).
tried to resync the schaltwerk with stop+start messages but did not manage to make it fluent. next i'll maybe try to resync usine (dedicating a schaltwerk track with a special syncNow! message)..
wonder if any1 tried http://www.innerclocksystems.com/ ? (little, rather expensive hw box, claims to get rid of midi clock jitter )
however, when i got time i still look for integrating a doepfer schaltwerk (8*16 stepseq). this little cur has a very weak timing and neither slave nor master mode worked with usine (or any other soft). got good results with slaving an akai asq-10 sequencer (via MTC).
tried to resync the schaltwerk with stop+start messages but did not manage to make it fluent. next i'll maybe try to resync usine (dedicating a schaltwerk track with a special syncNow! message)..
wonder if any1 tried http://www.innerclocksystems.com/ ? (little, rather expensive hw box, claims to get rid of midi clock jitter )
i had same feelingz using midi clock III modules to force usine to sync Live, same as you guru, wasn't solid, if I well remember bsork told that usine wasn't speaking the same langage for "song position".
the workaround I found, in my case, was to send an impulse each longest cyclce in live ie 4bar to force usine restart a cycle, and had better result setting the tempo manually, (or counting time between 2 impulse and calculate the tempo via patch) this must be applicable to external hw i guess but would need a dedicaced track to send "cycle impulse" and would work only when usine is slave, and still problematic with long cycles....
. what is very strange is that I can confirm that an hardware midi clock sent from a korg zero 8 sync and reflect tempo changes correctly in live, so I was wondering If problems didn't come from the fact that usine seems to not have that same "song position" langage, ... is it planned to be implemented, or maybe it will be a different approach i guess, seems yes, cool... not keen on ppq and other stuff but feel pb might come from here...
for now I only use usine as a powerfull midi controller so no drastic pb the cycle restart trick do the job for me, but I was wondering if anybody here works in audio sync usine with another soft with solid clock too, cause as you guru I may use usine only/as master in a soon future
so might be nb1 pb soon arf.
the workaround I found, in my case, was to send an impulse each longest cyclce in live ie 4bar to force usine restart a cycle, and had better result setting the tempo manually, (or counting time between 2 impulse and calculate the tempo via patch) this must be applicable to external hw i guess but would need a dedicaced track to send "cycle impulse" and would work only when usine is slave, and still problematic with long cycles....
. what is very strange is that I can confirm that an hardware midi clock sent from a korg zero 8 sync and reflect tempo changes correctly in live, so I was wondering If problems didn't come from the fact that usine seems to not have that same "song position" langage, ... is it planned to be implemented, or maybe it will be a different approach i guess, seems yes, cool... not keen on ppq and other stuff but feel pb might come from here...
for now I only use usine as a powerfull midi controller so no drastic pb the cycle restart trick do the job for me, but I was wondering if anybody here works in audio sync usine with another soft with solid clock too, cause as you guru I may use usine only/as master in a soon future
so might be nb1 pb soon arf.Ok, double time to machinedrum solved...no fault of Usine.
About song position, Usine does seem to do something differently than other hosts as I was testing with pizmidi's Big Clock vst
( http://www.thepiz.org/dl/?p=vst )
hoping I could catch any indescrepancies in Usine's absolute position compared to other software slaved to the same clock and no matter what I did I could not ever reset Big Clock to 0 in Usine. Also to reset the Usine sequencer to 0 with receive midi clock, it seems I have to disable the midi clock input and manually set the counter to 00:00:00:00
Is this the only way? How about a loop region within Usine?
I will continue to explore the options and will report back if I have any revelations!
About song position, Usine does seem to do something differently than other hosts as I was testing with pizmidi's Big Clock vst
( http://www.thepiz.org/dl/?p=vst )
hoping I could catch any indescrepancies in Usine's absolute position compared to other software slaved to the same clock and no matter what I did I could not ever reset Big Clock to 0 in Usine. Also to reset the Usine sequencer to 0 with receive midi clock, it seems I have to disable the midi clock input and manually set the counter to 00:00:00:00
Is this the only way? How about a loop region within Usine?
I will continue to explore the options and will report back if I have any revelations!
A couple of findings:
-to reset sequencer to 0, no I do not have do disable midi clock in first. I don't know how I came to that conclusion?
-after some tests I have found the general timing of my machinedrum is awful, so using the machinedrum as my midi master is not going to work. The midi clock out on the Spectralis is flawless but I have to stop the Spectralis'sequencer to change songs..
-recording a simple beat into Usine slaved to the Spectralis and then playing that back still synced to the spectralis and monitoring the same audio from the spectralis all is fine untill I Increase my cpu usage too high and then an unrecoverable trainwreck happens. Ultimately the Usine sequencer would resynch when synch was lost.
-I was experimenting with Phrazor VSTI (totally discontinued but a demo is still downloadable at http://www.sonicbytes.com/phrazor/phrazor.htm ) and while Usine is slaved to external sync of the Spectralis doing a one bar loop, Phraser will play along normally untill it suddenly decides it is doing a one bar loop in some random place in the timeline.
When I press stop and start again, Phrasor resets to the beginning of a bar but it seems unpredictable.
-if I stop the midi master and then start again, Usine is out of sync with the recorded audio untill I reset the sequencer to 00 again. Is there any way to tell Usine's sequencer to return to 0 when a stop message is received? Or perhaps return to the start of bar grid XX (perhaps user definable depending on how many bars the midi master is looping) Or perhaps is there a way to set a loop point in usine's sequencer?
final? verdict. I may be better off using Usine as a VST for the time being, unless my next tests with Usine as master fare better..
-to reset sequencer to 0, no I do not have do disable midi clock in first. I don't know how I came to that conclusion?
-after some tests I have found the general timing of my machinedrum is awful, so using the machinedrum as my midi master is not going to work. The midi clock out on the Spectralis is flawless but I have to stop the Spectralis'sequencer to change songs..
-recording a simple beat into Usine slaved to the Spectralis and then playing that back still synced to the spectralis and monitoring the same audio from the spectralis all is fine untill I Increase my cpu usage too high and then an unrecoverable trainwreck happens. Ultimately the Usine sequencer would resynch when synch was lost.
-I was experimenting with Phrazor VSTI (totally discontinued but a demo is still downloadable at http://www.sonicbytes.com/phrazor/phrazor.htm ) and while Usine is slaved to external sync of the Spectralis doing a one bar loop, Phraser will play along normally untill it suddenly decides it is doing a one bar loop in some random place in the timeline.
When I press stop and start again, Phrasor resets to the beginning of a bar but it seems unpredictable.
-if I stop the midi master and then start again, Usine is out of sync with the recorded audio untill I reset the sequencer to 00 again. Is there any way to tell Usine's sequencer to return to 0 when a stop message is received? Or perhaps return to the start of bar grid XX (perhaps user definable depending on how many bars the midi master is looping) Or perhaps is there a way to set a loop point in usine's sequencer?
final? verdict. I may be better off using Usine as a VST for the time being, unless my next tests with Usine as master fare better..
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Clearscreen
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if you're after a good interface i can definietly recommend this one. i got one when i got a nord micro modular and realised NONE (inlcuding my firewire soundcards) of my midi interfaces were quick enough and standards compliant enough to talk to it reliably. since i got that, no midi problems whatsoever...amiga909 wrote:- get a decent midi interface. elektron recommends: http://www.elektron.se/products/?sProd= ... e=overview
I actually have the TM-1. In some previous issues I was having with sync from Live to my Spectralis failing if there were a cpu spike, I ruled out the TM-1 as the least effective under the circumstances so I just use it for machinedrum dumps now. The midi port on my RME Multiface II seems the most stable and jitter free interface in my setup. I also use an older Motu Midi Xpress XT and it is a great unit but for midi clock, the RME still feels the most solid to me. Trouble is I can only use it for clock to one device at a time unless I want to get into a plethora of outboard midi splitters and mergers.
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