independent tempo for piano roll

[edi]

i just tried using usine to replace some of my cpu hungry reaqtor instruments. it all works out fine exept one thing:
the piano roll (unlike the sampler or the step sequencer) can only be paced by the global clock. is there a way to change the tempo of recorded midi to e.g. 1/2 or 4t? it would also nice to let it run free...

[Vincent]

Yes, good idea. As the problem in Reaktor was the impossibility to change the general tempo (except with the snapshots, not very practical), it's the opposite here: we cannot have a different tempo in the patches!
I think this post should move in the Suggestions Forum...

[senso]

I'm working on a way to have independent synchro module on any patch.
(be able to play poly rhythm grooves)
But actually, not really possible with Usine.

[Vincent]

(be able to play poly rhythm grooves)
But actually, not really possible with Usine.

That gives us time to practice multiorbital grooves...

[bsork]

In connection with the further development of my PunchInLoops patch/workspace, I too miss something like the above ideas. Manipulation in the time domain is easier handled when using a sampler than midi.

Another way of looking at the data, would be to see it the same way as samples; ie. in time: Minutes and seconds instead of bars and beats, and you could vary the speed the same way as in the grain sampler.

[Vincent]

Bjørn, you forgot milliseconds! You should have noticed that Senso uses a two-digit precision fader for milliseconds delays...

[edi]

hey, there`s something going on in this forum. thank you for the fast reply.

I'm working on a way to have independent synchro module on any patch.
(be able to play poly rhythm grooves)
But actually, not really possible with Usine.

with that feature usine would be the perfect livetool for me (and a reason to buy a license)

[Vincent]

hey, there`s something going on in this forum. thank you for the fast reply.

I'm working on a way to have independent synchro module on any patch.
(be able to play poly rhythm grooves)
But actually, not really possible with Usine.

with that feature usine would be the perfect livetool for me (and a reason to buy a license)

I saw so many changes and improvements since my beginning with Usine... That was in November. I think that Usine cannot be anything else than what we exactly need. Soon or late.be

[bsork]

If the piano roll module had an option to record and play even when the synchro is off, it wouldn't be to hard to create a patch that calculated the VST pos. I can see the "pos" parameter running even when synchro is off, so the timestamping of the data should probably not create problems(?).

If one could record without synchro on and the recording started at pos=0, converting from the original tempo to the new one would look like this (I guess this calculation could be written in other ways, but...):

pos = (millisecs since play trigger / (60000/original tempo)) * (new Tempo/original tempo)

[bmoussay]

Hi Usiners,


About the idea of different tempi playing in parallel in Usine.
In the Nord Modular G2 it works this way:
- one uses "clock oscillators" to drive any "tempo driven module", like sequencers, random generators, etc...
- these clock oscillators can have their own tempo setting or be slaved to the "master clock".

This allows amazing possibilities or synchronization-desinchronization etc...

So maybe it could be a great thing in usine to have:

- a clock module, with a tempo inlet, a sync (or "restart") inlet (cycle bar quarter button midi etc...), inlets for cycle and bar settings, and the following outlets: cycle, bar, beat, 1/8, 1/12, 1/16, 1/24, 1/32, plus a special "sync out"

- then on "sync driven modules" like samplers, steps, pianoroll, etc... we could imagine a "sync in", and when something is plugged into this "sync in" then the sync settings of the module (cycle, bar, beat, etc...) aren't driven anymore by Usine's master settings, but by the "sync in " signal (I don't know if I'm clear!?..).

But maybe that's quite hard to implement. I just don't realize.

A last thing about synchronization:
Sometimes, in the synchronization module, I'd like to have access to smaller values than a 16th. I think it would be great to have access to a very small value (like 1/96), then with "counter modules" it's easy to extract any wanted value.
What do you think?

Well just a few ideas to improve this fantastic software!!!

Rgds,

B.

[senso]

I've just created a Local Synchro Module.
Works like a normal Master synchro but only concern the local patch (or sub patch). Can be used in a sampler, pianoroll, vst, steps etc.

Very fun to create kind of "Steve Reich" music...

Next version, coming soon.

I think it would be great to have access to a very small value (like 1/96)

I think it can be easily created in a sub patch? the 16th led can trigg a faster timer set to (bar duration)/96... something like that.

[bmoussay]

As usual, you're a master Olivier

B.

[Vincent]

Wow...
Usine the well Named Software... Guys, I think I'm not less crazy than you are.

[wildemar]

I've just created a Local Synchro Module.
Works like a normal Master synchro but only concern the local patch (or sub patch). Can be used in a sampler, pianoroll, vst, steps etc.

After playing with the Synchro Modules for a while, I find it difficult to create polyrhythmic patches. What I'd like is a patch that changes its time signature within one cycle (my "signature signature" is 4/4 4/4 4/4 5/4 for example). While this is technically possible, it doesn't work quite right. I've managed to create a patch that reads time signatures from an array and feeds it to the Synchro Module, but that seems to confuse Usine a lot. It's almost like not all parts of Usine realize that the timesig has changed --- the Sequencer seems completely oblivious to changing sigs. Granted, I did not sequence the time-changing patches, but considering that the Seq's looping settings also loop unsequenced patches/cycles this is a problem nonetheless.

Long story short: How would I go about frequently (but mostly regularly) changing time-sigs?

(BTW: Usine is amazing! Keep up the good work! )

regards,
/W

[runagate]

Interesting. I am highly interested in this, also, as I do this all the time.

Making weird tempo sync time signatures in SynthEdit this week may allow me to make a patch for this, but I work continually for the next few days so I'll check back when I've time.

[bmoussay]

Hello,

One technique I use frequently to "change" time signatures:
- Let's say you want a cycle of 6/4 - 7/4 - 4/4 - 4/4
- set usine sync to the largest bar (here 7/4) cycle=1bar
- then take a piano roll in loop mode, and put a note anywhere on the first beat, then 7 beats later, then 8 later, then 5 later, then 5 later, and set the the loop of the piano roll to end 4 beats later.
- make the following connections: piano roll "midi out "-> midi filter "in", midi filter "msg" -> math A=B "A" (set B to 144 (i.e the midi code for note ON)) , math A=B "out" -> global (or local) sync module "restart" inlet.

this way usine sync will start, then restart after 6 beats, then after 7 beats, then after 4, then after 4, and start over and you have the cycle 6/4 -7/4 -4/4 -4/4

The piano roll is very powerful since it can have any length but is always synced to usine's clock.

Hope this is clear and can help you.
Regards,

Ben

[wildemar]

Thanks Ben, that's an interesting approach; I'll try definitely try this. But I can see a little problem there: It renders the concept of a "cycle" somwhat useless, in that syncing to a cycle becomes the same as syncing to a bar (right?).

regards
/W

[bmoussay]

Hey, just a detail, I forgot to tell you to put a "O to 1" module between the "A=B" and the "Sync" module, to ensure that the restart occurs when the note starts.

Of course about syncing to a cycle this is more complicated than using Usine's dashboard sync, but with the piano roll, using it's "start play" outlet, the "start pos" and "end pos" outlets, and some maths, and even different notes for each start of bar you can sync anything in usine to the cycle you want. (or any of its bars).
I'm not sure I'm really clear...
Regards,

B.

[wildemar]

Yeah, I had stumbled over this "0 to 1" issue in my approach too. Thanks.

This syncing to the piano roll thing seems really interesting, I'll play with that a bit. But I would still like some "easy and obvious" way to do this, because it polyrhythms are a fairly thing for me, so the easier, the better.

/W

[bmoussay]

Well I imagine 2 way for a simpler approach:
- to have a "time signature" track in the sequencer (like in logic pro for instance), where we could set up diferent time signatures. But that may be some hard work to program (what do u think olivier?)
- to be able to set the cycle lenght to more than 16 bars (as it is currently limited), so you could set up a cycle of 23 bars of 1/4 to achieve 7/4 + 5/4 + 6/4 + 5/4 for instance, but then of course, you would have the "cycle" sync, but no more useful "bar" sync. But that should be very easy to program i think.

About logic pro, I like the idea of the "global tracks": one for the time signature, one for the tempo, etc...

But of course these would only be simpler ways to do thing we can actually already do in Usine.

Regards,

B.

[wildemar]

- to have a "time signature" track in the sequencer (like in logic pro for instance), where we could set up diferent time signatures.

I think I favor that idea. Although adding additional tracks would mean that you would have to keep the timesig-track in sync with what's happening in the other tracks. Probably the least intrusive solution would be to "simply" make the existing approach (the sync modules) work flawlessly. Right now timesig changes work, but they do not work reliably: Oddly, something like a 4-4-4-3 pattern worked, but a 4-4-4-5 pattern played like a 4-4-4-4 pattern that skips the first beat of the first bar. Or something like that. I haven't quite figured it out yet; it was pretty weird.

regards
/W