Loop triggering Ableton Live style

[nofish]

Hi,
I am a happy Usine user for some time now and played quite a few gigs using it with my band (I'm a keyboardist) and it never let me down.

But to be honest, so far I almost only used it for layering and splitting different VSTi's and FX and didn't look much deeper into it.

So my next big step will be loop triggering.
To give you an idea what I want to do I've uploaded a screenie from Ableton Live:



(click to enlarge)

What I want to do is to trigger different scenes from my Midi Keyboard consisting of different prerecorded loops. (I don't want to do any live looping). Ideal would be to trigger Audio and Midi loops for VSTi's together in one patch.
The loop triggering should be in a "quantised toggle" fashion meaning: If I press the assigned key for Scene 1 the loops start at the next bar, if I press again they stop.

What do you think is the best way to get me started?

[bsork]

Maybe not quite what you ask for, but if you want to avoid creating complex patches containing several loops, instead use the snapshots/scenes in the conductor to treat the whole patch grid as one big set of presets. With the latest version you can also have more than one set of snapshots in one workspace. Use MIDI learn on the conductor and turn on the quantize option you want for each snapshot.

[zombie]

I'm also interrested on the quantised toogle stuff (for example each quater bar or 1/8)...

I've seek for something but i just can't !
If anyone has a idea i'll be helpfull !

[bsork]

You'll find the quantize options both as items on the right-click ("context") menu that pops up for the switches and buttons, as well as a column in the MIDI/Key learn lists for each patch and the global remote.

BTW, I think Senso mentioned that the next version will have quantizing on more controls like faders.

[artificial]

hello everybody!!

i'm new here in this forum and i'm kinda new to usine too... i'm really interested in such a feature too!!

let's have an example:

in the conductor, there are 2 snaps:

the first snap consists of a drum beat and a bassline (2 seperate patches) -> let's call it verse
the second one consists of another drum beat another bassline and a synth melody -> refrain

now i start with the verse, which will be played for 8 times and then i want to switch to the refrain... is there a way to click on the refrain snap while the verse is playing the 8th and so, the last time??? I mean the verse should play the whole time and then it should switch to the refrain?!?!

sorry if i explained it in a confusing way, but i'm kinda new to it, so please don't flame me!!! hehe

thanks in advance ^^

bye

art.

[bsork]

Hello and welcome, Artifical!

What you're asking for is quite easy: If you've already created the snapshots using one of the Conductor windows, use the "normal" Conductor and set the Quantize value for each (the right-most column) to Cycle or Bar. (I assume you have the synchro turned on.)

In both Conductors, using the previous /next buttons to select the next snapshot will then be quantized/delayed until the next bar or cycle starts. If you're using different quantizations, remember that it's the value on the selected snapshot that is being used - not the one playing when the button is hit. In the "lite" Conductor you can also use the row of buttons to select snapshot 0 to 20 directly.

Selecting the snapshots using either the "num" fader in the lite window or the clicking the number column to the left in the normal window overrides the quantization. Practical when you're programming.

[artificial]

Hello and welcome, Artifical!

What you're asking for is quite easy: If you've already created the snapshots using one of the Conductor windows, use the "normal" Conductor and set the Quantize value for each (the right-most column) to Cycle or Bar. (I assume you have the synchro turned on.)

In both Conductors, using the previous /next buttons to select the next snapshot will then be quantized/delayed until the next bar or cycle starts. If you're using different quantizations, remember that it's the value on the selected snapshot that is being used - not the one playing when the button is hit. In the "lite" Conductor you can also use the row of buttons to select snapshot 0 to 20 directly.

Selecting the snapshots using either the "num" fader in the lite window or the clicking the number column to the left in the normal window overrides the quantization. Practical when you're programming.

thanks bsork for your fast reply!! I checked it out, and yeah it works!! ^^ so thank you!!!

but i have another question: when i press the spacebar to pause a song, is there a way that all the patches restart from 1/1 when i press the spacebar again - because i tried to add a bassline vst (after i played with the other patches) and i wasn't able to sync it to the other patches, except restarting usine (i guess it is kinda easy, but i wasn't able to find out! hehe)

so, thanks again in advance!!! and sorry for my "maybe dumb" questions!! ^^

bye

art.

[bsork]

If you turn on the "auto restart" option in the dashboard, the cycle should start from the beginning every time either the audio engine is turned on (like what you describe) or when the synchro is restarted.

So yes, it's kinda easy!

[artificial]

i tried that out yesterday - this was my first idea too, but it hasn't worked (at the moment i can't try it out, i'm at the college atm), but i'm gonna retry it, when i'm at home again!!!

thanks anyway!!!

bye

art.

[bsork]

If it doesn't work, you can try to press [Home] which resets the sequencer (not the cycle) to the first beat. If that does work, you might want add cycle markers on the sequencer timeline so that it corresponds with the cycle length.

[artificial]

thanks for your help, bsork!! it worked now.. hehe... i forgot to add a sync patch to my bassline (vst + piano roll) ... as i already said, i'm kinda new to it... ^^

so, thanks again!!!

bye

art.

[seamus]

I am now experimenting with trying to do some simple Ableton style loop triggering. I have to test more and perhaps I am not doing it the right way but I find it much more awkward than Ableton to do a simple thing like trigger some precut loops in the sequencer.
My problems and experience thus far.
1
Setting the tempo. I know i have some loops at 122bpm. Usine will only play at 122.03. Im sure there is some logic to why Usine wont accept or play at 122.00 but I dont know what that is.

2
dragging the loop in and lining it up is not so easy. It would be nice if there was some kind of snap mode so that a drum beat could be moved around in beat or bar increments. After a little trouble (not too bad) I have a loop playing. Its not as seamless as ableton. There is a small hiccup in the beginning but I suppose its passable.

3

How to I assign the loops to the conductor? I dont know how I can set up key commands or midi triggers to fire off the loops.

One Usine fantasy I had was to build a sequence of patches changes lets say different harmonizations assigned to a patch that could change every bar. Can I put conductor patch changes in the sequencer?

Thanks for your help Usiners.

[nay-seven]

1_not sure to follow you, where you set the tempo , in the master tempo or..?

2_ use the settings in the sequencer ( image below)

3 A solution is to create markers aligned to your loops and use this patch to link the conductor to the markers :


4_ you can use the user curve modules +send bus to the conductor

[seamus]

Nay,

Ok I have that working.
Next question:

How to I apply bar syncho so that i can trigger the next loop a bar before. RIght now with the above method there is no synchro. It jumps immediately to the next marker

Any why does my metronome only go to 122.03 and not just 122.00. My loop was cut for 122.00. Perhaps this is causing the small hiccup in the loop. Shouldnt I be able to set it to 122.00?

Im trying to ask less questions so you can answer easier.

[nay-seven]

Insert the sub-patch synchro & time/quantize data after the wait 1 module to quantize the change.

I don't get it for the metronome, where do you see this value of 122,03..?
are you talking about the metronome sub-patch..? no tempo values here...

[seamus]

Sorry by metronome I mean global tempo in the dashboard.

[seamus]

Sorry again not dashboard. It's above the smpte. Global tempo

[nay-seven]

mm, global tempo is a part of the dashboard..?
but double click and enter 122 don't work for you...?

[bsork]

Check the Perfect Synchro in the Global Setup window - it's in the system tab.

From the Wiki; "Perfect Synchro automatically changes the tempo to get bar length as a multiple of BLOC size. This give a much better synchro in loop recording. Not recommended if your bloc size is greater than 128."

[nay-seven]

oh, so global setup..
yes, quite normal, as it's written, it's a multiple of your bloc size
try to decrease your bloc size.

btw, 122,03 is quite acceptable ?

[seamus]

Perfect synchro is engaged. My current bloc size is 48 and best bloc size is set to 64

i dont mind the tempo being 122.03 but perhaps that little bit extra makes looping something that was precut at 122.00 a little bit off. I just cant loop as cleanly as ableton. It could be that .03?

If i have something that I want to loop at exactly 122.00 should i have the setup differently? Take perfect synchro off?

[iococoi]

yeah..try to turn the perfect loop-option off..check out this thread

http://sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic. ... 765#p18765

~ io

[seamus]

ah thanks. ok.

now i have 122.00

i shall have to test to see when the best times are to engage/disable perfect synchro.

[seamus]

Nay mentioned the sub patch synchro and time but I only can find local , master and lfo synchro.
Im not sure how to patch markers being triggered on the bar or beat.

[nay-seven]

was talking about the path:
browser/modules/synchro&time/quantize data patch
( you can also use the search function in the module browser )

[seamus]

Ah well I found the quantize data patch.
I use the search function. Very handy indeed!

[seamus]

i have quantized some buttons to trigger markers in the sequencer. Seems to work.
One bug I have noticed is when i fully zoom in the sequencer it crashes the sequencer.

Looping this way is not as seamless as Ableton.
Perhaps it is better to use a sampler for this. I find the GUI of the sequencer difficult to gauge how well things line up.