One fader to control them all!

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 08 Sep 2009, 05:02

Ok, my title is a little dramatic, but I am trying to find a method that is not too confusing for everyday use, in which I could have for example any of eight faders controlling any of eight chosen parameter from four VSTI's within a given Usine preset. Ideally the faders would also have the ability to have their captions change with presets so if for example in preset 1 a fader was controlling VSTI A's filter cutoff it could be labeled as such and in preset 2 the same fader controlled VSTI B's amp decay the label could be set accordingly.

I am thinking that there is no way possible to do this with connecting faders directly to VSTI input pins so that means I would be using midi learn on the plugins and controlling them with create midi message modules piped directly into the VSTI's but the question is how can I dynamicly switch functions of a fader per preset without having huge chart of midi mappings for all four VSTI's on hand and another fader for each fader to control the midi CC sent by the fader? Or is this the only way?
Any suggestions?

Also, am I correct in assuming there is no way to directly edit a caption or a text field from within the interface builder and for any time I change a caption, I will need to locate the caption to edit from within the patch,except possibly by prepopulating all possible captions with perhaps a listbox?

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 08 Sep 2009, 07:58

ur idea sounds interesting.
dont understand yet why u want 'generic faders'?
why not generate new faders for every preset?

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 08 Sep 2009, 08:18

The idea you're describing is quite similar to the workspace I've been working on lately. In there, I have a list of possible sources (switches, faders) and a list of possible destinations. The destination list updates the captions of the sources with the aid of my "Comma delimited texts to separate elements" add-on (it's in the others section).

My workspace is however a lot more complicated than eight faders controlling a fixed number of destinations. I could mail it to you if you want, but I think it would be better if I created an add-on using your idea as the basis. My workspace is centered around interpreting and translating MIDI coming from my foot controller, and MIDI control of the hardware parts of my guitar rack (pre-amp, switcher, TC Fireworx) is inside the whole thing making it rather useless and confusing for anyone but me. (Well, I'm often confused too when I try to understand what I've done in there...

) The fact that my old foot controller died on me when the programming was well on it's way, and my new controller behaves rather differently adds to the mess.

I'm thinking an example workspace would be the right thing to create, with a "master" patch containing eight faders sent to a couple of VST patches using buss modules.

I think you're right in your assumptions about editing in the IB.

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 08 Sep 2009, 09:22

amiga909 wrote:ur idea sounds interesting.
dont understand yet why u want 'generic faders'?
why not generate new faders for every preset?

Not sure I quite understand how that could be done except by perhaps by putting a fader on every VSTI pin I could possibly want control of and then automating the visibility status of the the fader per preset but then I would likely end up with overlaps of the xy position in the ib with certain faders..? Mind you there's a lot of ib features I haven't really dug into yet so probably I'm missing something really usefull?

bsork,
your approach sounds very interesting. So is it possible to have a destination name be linked to a CC number and channel number on a create midi event module? An example would be much appreciated!

For now I'll go have a look at the "Comma delimited texts to separate elements" add-on. Maybe I'll think of something

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 08 Sep 2009, 10:23

gurulogic wrote:bsork,
your approach sounds very interesting. So is it possible to have a destination name be linked to a CC number and channel number on a create midi event module? An example would be much appreciated!

For now I'll go have a look at the "Comma delimited texts to separate elements" add-on. Maybe I'll think of something

The basic idea is that each destination is connected to an element in an array distributed by busses. What to do with the incoming data at the destinations is decided there, whether it's a VST parameter, a Create MIDI or whatever. I haven't got a copy here at work anyway, and I have to take a closer look to refresh my memory about how it's constructed. I also think that I can create a rather simple example that probably will be easier to understand than any lengthy descriptions.

Clearscreen · Unread post by **Clearscreen** » 09 Sep 2009, 02:01

Have a look at my killamix interface patch:
http://www.sensomusic.com/download.php? ... 0Basic.wkp

i set it up to use my kenton killamix as a universal controller. as you change patches the interface in the IB changes to reflect what parameters are being controlled as well as showing the current patch state. the current state was also being sent to the killamix. basically i was assigning the killamix as a remote controller to the knobs in the IB interface. the only problem was that at the time Usine was having trouble remembering the assignments so every time i reopened that patch i had to reassign the controllers - annoying, but not a deal breaker and it might have been changed by now...

obviously you can use any controller, not just a killamix, and it could be extended to have as many knobs/faders as you want. hope this helps you out, if you have any questions/problems lemme know...

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 09 Sep 2009, 03:37

Here's a one fader example that might just end up working for me...a lot simpler than I thought really, except for the time it will take to midi map and populate comboboxes with comma texts.
The VSTIA,VSTIB,VSTIC and VSTID combobox selects the VSTI that receives the midi data from the Create Midi module, as well as selects which group of comma text is passed through to the fader caption and parameter selection combobox.
A-Param1, A-Param2, A-Param3 etc. combobox selects the mid CC number for the Create Midi module and also selects the name of the corresponding midi mapped parameter to display on the fader.
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... %20aLL.pat

Of course I will be looking carefully at any other suggestions, thanks!
Especially as 10 instances of this selectable fader use 10-12% of my laptop cpu...yikes!!!

Btw, is there any easy way to pass data only if value is equal to X? I think my buss method is hogging cpu.

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 09 Sep 2009, 08:05

gurulogic wrote:Btw, is there any easy way to pass data only if value is equal to X? I think my buss method is hogging cpu.

An A=B together with PassEvent should do the trick:

data->A=B.A
A=B.B=X
data->PassEvent.In
A=B.out->PassEvent.Pass
PassEvent.out->

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 09 Sep 2009, 10:54

bsork wrote:An A=B together with PassEvent should do the trick:

Thanks!
That's a nice simple usage I wish I figured out a long time ago...I have other patches to clean up!
Now to chew on further cpu optimizations...

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 11 Sep 2009, 08:55

Here's a 12 fader patch that I think should work as intended if anyone feels so inclined to give it a test run?
It's probably going to end up an 8 fader for my use but I got carried away...critique welcome, of course!
If suitable,or for that matter usefull to anyone other than myself, I could add to the add ons section?

http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/upload ... faders.pat

Edit: I did not have the receive buses for midi out and midi to usine named properly. Re Uploaded.

Edit: and again re uploaded because generated bus names changed for some reason?

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 11 Sep 2009, 22:08

uuh..still some work to do... send bus names aren't properly recalled with presets or when patch is reloaded.

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 15 Sep 2009, 01:31

I should have known better... midi send buses cannot have the same names or they do not work!
Now I need a cpu friendly way to select destinations for each of the 8-12 midi faders?
Any suggestions? I tried using a dispatch module and even though it seems to work there is issues with the cpu overloading or receiving midi devices spewing out errors so I am assuming that normal data modules are not able to process midi?

The only way I can see to do this is to select a mid channel at each create midi event module and then use a channel filter at each destination but then I lose the ability to have CC's on different channels...

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 15 Sep 2009, 07:28

if you use a patch midi tools /midi CC filter before your dispatch module , no particular problems here...

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 15 Sep 2009, 08:06

That doesn't seem to make any difference for me. For example if I connect the midi monitor from the pizmidi vst collection into an output pin of the dispatch module and then move the CC fader with or without the CC filter patch, the interface quickly becomes sluggish and the taskmanager shows cpu at 45-50% untill I delete the midi monitor.

Edit:
Ok, so the problem may only to be with the two different midi monitors I have tried. I just tried with a regular VST and there is no problem..weird?

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 15 Sep 2009, 08:25

Ok, so a pass if change module between the dispatch and the midi destination seems to sort things out. No midi filter needed.
So does that mean midi can safely be manipulated by most regular data modules?

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 15 Sep 2009, 10:26

gurulogic wrote:Ok, so a pass if change module between the dispatch and the midi destination seems to sort things out. No midi filter needed.
So does that mean midi can safely be manipulated by most regular data modules?

When it comes to data "transport" or routing of some sort, MIDI messages should be handled like any other data. For things like logical modules, you obviously have to split the messages in their respective parts (msg, data1, data2) - but you already knew that

. Come to think of it, I guess MIDI through audio in-/outlets would in most cases behave quite strange...

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 18 Sep 2009, 18:23

gurulogic wrote:Also, am I correct in assuming there is no way to directly edit a caption or a text field from within the interface builder..

nope, it's possible, i managed to do it in a part of my square patch let me edit (via keyboard) and store captions directly from ib, will try to isolate it and post it if you are interested. I wanted to do the same kind of "layout" presets where each cell store caption, cc send, value 1,2, midi ch ect, via a popup window to set them and also store last state to avoid jumps on recall. will think how to adapt other items like faders..but still have to set midi setting individually once, then it's automatically recalled.

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 18 Sep 2009, 18:34

23fx23 wrote:will try to isolate it and post it if you are interested.

Thanks but I have it all working as needed, fader captions are populated with comma texts automaticly when the fader destination/function is selected.
Also I may be ditching my " making the perfect patch that does everything" approach and instead relying on my computer not blowing up as I load various patches in realtime..

haha, I quoted you before you edited your post

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 18 Sep 2009, 18:39

ok cool then, yup populating with list box is a good tech..same here about "perfect patch"

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 19 Sep 2009, 20:18

I have done something very similar to this, and since interest has been expressed, I cleaned it up and uploaded it to add-ons.

I have a generic matrix that allows me to take any of my control sources and map them to any parameter in any vst instrument or effect in my setup (currently 10 instruments and 4 effects--processing power is running out!) I can also set an upper and lower limit for the control. In my setup, I have controls that correspond to my hardware, which I learn. Then these controls can be mapped by name using comboboxes.

You still have to type all the parameters in by hand. I use a spreadsheet to put parameters in one column, and parameter numbars in another. Then I alphabetize. Because of the commatext limit, I also have to delete parameters that I don't expect to need to map.

The downside is that you can only map to parameters that respond to midi. Great for NI stuff, but MrRay only has midi control for 5 of its parameters

It's at:

http://www.sensomusic.com/download.php?file=matrix.pat

Hope this is useful to somebody!

And vis-a-vis 'perfect patch'. Well, I'm getting close.

Problem is, my patch is perfect enough that I need hundreds of presets for it, and the conductor is in *such* bad need of an upgrade.....

Well, I'm sure Senso will get to it when he has a chance. This is an amazing program, and it's crazy to think it's all the work of one man!!!

-eric

gurulogic · Unread post by **gurulogic** » 20 Sep 2009, 08:04

Thanks! Cool stuff! (above link is for an empty patch, btw)
I would imagine you should be able to use a send midi to usine module for control of usine objects, no?
It will probably take me a little while to figure out how exactly to work this...

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