MIDI Learn on endless decoders

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 06 Oct 2009, 23:21

Today I got a new controller keyboard, an M-Audio Axiom 49, which is the first thing I've ever had with endless encoders, and I have a problem which some of you with more experience with these things than me might help me with. Unless I've stumbled across a bug, that is...

First of all, I wasn't aware that there seems to be more than one way to encode inc/dec from the encoders, but the factory presets seems to use two or three different methods, of which "2's compliment" seems to work best with Usine.

First of all I do a MIDI learn and set the mode to "relative", and the fader or whatever responds as I expect it to as long as I move it slowly. In the console I get 176-102-01-CC which increments with 1, while 176-102-127-CC decrements with 1. Peculiar that 127 is minus and 1 is plus, but I suppose that's the way it's supposed to be.

However, when I turn the controller knob faster, the CC values moves away from 1 or 127 to create larger steps, but Usine seems to interpret everything but a value of 127 as "increment by 1", so the only way of turning down the value from the controller is slowly turning the knob anti-clockwise.

Anyone? (

I might be able to change the values sent, but so far I haven't had the time to dig down into how this can be done in the controller.)

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 06 Oct 2009, 23:34

there was a discussion about this axiom problem :
http://www.sensomusic.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=668
nd also an addon ( EndlessEncoder X8 )

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 07 Oct 2009, 07:50

Thanks for the tip Nay. I should have done my homework before (ie a search or two) before posting, but I was too tired last night.

I've had a quick look at the manual, and there are more listed varieties of inc/dec encoding than what was obvious from the printed preset chart, so I have to dig a bit deeper into the machine I guess. Or use the add-on.

Could one of you numerous BCF2000/BCR2000 owners out there post some examples of how how the values looks when you use the rotarys for incrementing/decrementing?

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 07 Oct 2009, 12:36

i 've just test again with my bcr2000 but no particular problems , even with fast movements
i suppose it's really a particular problem with Axiom...

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 07 Oct 2009, 14:18

Could you please post an example of how the values from the BCR looks in the console window with tracing turned on? Maybe it's doable on the Axiom without any scripts or something. I've just taken a look at the manual, and it mentions no less than 7 methods of sending incr/decr messages (or rather 6,5 as the RPN and NRPN methods are the same...).

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 07 Oct 2009, 17:48

I'm afraid there's nothing special to check , looks as normal midi CC..

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 08 Oct 2009, 08:20

Thanks, I didn't have time yesterday do anything with this stuff, will check it out tomorrow.

I agree, that looks like plain, old CC non-relative CC to me.

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 09 Oct 2009, 11:36

I've think I've got it - correct me if I'm wrong .

The BCF/BCR used as a "remote" receives the CC values back from Usine so that the whole thing can operate with absolute values and update each other. The Axiom OTOH, can't receive anything so it only sends data about incrementing and decrementing the values, but it has several ways of generating slightly different relative CC formats which all have data2 values (normally used for absolute values) changes with the speed of the knob twiddling. (Eg preset 18 has a format as used by Linplug, while preset has a format used by NI). The CC96+97 standard way of incr/decr doesn't as far as I can tell respond to how fast the knob is turned, while the RPN/NRPN methods are more complex using several messages after each other.

I've created a script - RotaryToSingleCCs - that receives one of the endless dial formats available and translates them into separate incr/decr messages that Usine's can understand when MIDI mode is "relative" for a fader or whatever. Doing a normal MIDI learn will not work though as it will respond to the incoming message, not the one generated by the script.

I'll upload it to add-ons/other tonight - gotta go...!

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 09 Oct 2009, 12:30

cool for axiom users !
and happy you find the solution

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 09 Oct 2009, 23:06

Uploaded!

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 29 Oct 2009, 01:42

I have noticed that usine midilearn also doesn't work with my novation controller's encoders....

Thanks for the upload. i will see if it works with the novation as well.

=e

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 29 Oct 2009, 09:52

Hi, if you get any problems, feel free to ask - preferably with a screenshot or something of how the output from the Novation looks like.

amiga909 · Unread post by **amiga909** » 29 Oct 2009, 12:24

great. thanks for the script bsork

btw, it could be interesting for BCR users as well: if u change the behavior of the B-Control with BC-Convert (eg. choose different resolutions dependable from knob turning speed). havent got a problem myself, but i guess u could emulate the behavior of the axiom for the BCR..
http://www.sequencer.de/synth/index.php/BC-Convert

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 29 Oct 2009, 14:53

I took a look at the BCF/R manual, and it lists several relative modes for CCs - both 7- and 14-bits - but I couldn't find any description of what they were. Chances are that one of the 7-bit modes is equal to the one in the script, or at least that the script only needs smaller adjustments.

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