Roland FC300 owners wanted!

[bsork]

To La Tenaille and other owners (if any...) of a Roland FC-300 Midi pedal board: I want you to test this workspace, and tell me your results.

It contains three patches all sending various FC300 SysEx data. The first patch has buttons for setting the pedal to SYS mode, set diplay to tuner or "play" mode, and send text strings to the upper and lower line,

The second patch turns all the pedal LEDs on or off, and the third updates the Bank/Number LED display one character at the time.

With the Bank/Number LED I'm just curious whether it's updated correctly. The specification in the manual is upside down and mirrored to how it should be. I'm pretty sure it works OK as I've made it,

The real reason I'm asking you this, is that no matter what I've done, I have never managed to update the lower line of the LCD, and I wonder if it is like that for you others as well. I've searched the net without finding any mention of this problem, but then again most don't fiddle much around with SysEx like this anyway. I have had some contact with Norwegian/Scandinavian support to find out if this is a known bug (or a typo in the manual), but so far without getting any real help. Actually, I hoped I could get a mail address or something to contact some centrally placed guru in Roland.... Maybe tomorrow. I suspect that this is a bug, and nothing wrong with my pedal.

BTW - with the exception of the second patch, I've tried to add correct checksums everywhere even though it seems that the pedal doesn't check them. So I'm also wondering whether you can turn all the pedal LEDs on and off without problems as I can.


Thanks in advance!

[bsork]

....ooops! Forgot to mention that the Device ID should be 1 - the factory default. You'll find the setting in the Utility menu.

[La Tenaille]

Hi bsork,
So here we go ! First try and I have an error "incompatible version, update Usine", 35 times...
I have the last Usine version (5.15b). The same happens on my desktop computer (v 5.13beta)
So I've tried to reload the workspace (same errors) and the FC-300 display changed : "SOS" for the red leds (funny ) and "line#0/upper hi!" on the LCD. So I clic the tuner switch... nothing... I reload the workspace and the tuner appears ! Same for "set sysex mode" switch : works after a wkp reload.
That's all for now, the 2 other patches and LCD lower line don't work.
Hope it helps !

[bsork]

Another oooops...

Sorry, but I forgot that I'm running an "in-between" version of Usine I got from Olivier that fixes a couple of minor bugs - one of them has to do with sending sysex out. Stupid me.

Anyway, the fact that line1 (ie the lower LCD line) didn't show makes me even more sure that this is a bug in the FC. I think I will continue with the patch a only use the upper line for texts for now, but first I will try to install a system update from Roland that - even if this error isn't mentioned - might help. (Think I will backup the FC memory first, though... )

Thanks for taking the time to test!

[bsork]

[large]Hooray!!! I found it!!![/large]



The correct memory addresses for the lower LCD line should be $60 $40 - $60 $4F instead of the $64 $00 - $64 $0F in the manual!

[small]Now - why didn't I think of checking the sub-adresses before? Grrr, this has caused me a lot of wasted hours![/small]

[La Tenaille]

chic, a lot of dollars
wasted hours ? I have wasted months if you're interested

[bsork]

Well, me too - but not in this case.

Earlier today I realized that this wasn't the first time I've had problems with errors in Roland manuals. Eons ago, when the TR909 drum machine was new on the market, my band got the new toy on the market "for evaluation" - ie we borrowed it for some gigs in Denmark to use in 3-4 songs. Most of the programming went without problems, and I really didn't have to RTFM much, but when I did need to refer to the manual and found the right section describing the procedure, the last and interesting part of the sentence/paragraph was missing....

[La Tenaille]

I agree, Roland manual are crap A part of my wasted month were spent looking for a precise info in their "copy-pasted" paragraphs...

[bsork]

Sometimes I think that copy/paste within manuals and specifications should be banned! Not only for Roland... Your description reminds me of what I have to struggle with at work sometimes.

[vic1iful]

Maybe you guys can help

[vic1iful]

I am looking for a midi peddle that will controll both the line6 x3 pro and the roland vg99. I know that the FC300 has two way communication where as other peddles do not. Is it possible to use something like the Voodoo Labs midi foot controller, or would i be better off getting the roland and the Line6 foot controllers. Seems like too many foot controlers to me. I am new to midi so if this sounds like a foolish question sorry. I just don't understand the RRC2 protocal of the FC 300
TIA

[La Tenaille]

Hi vic1iful,
I use the FC300 with the VG-99.
> RRC2 is a connexion using a RJ45 plug (same as LAN) to power and transmit MIDI with a single wire.
> If you use Usine to manage your MIDI setup, everything becomes possible (ie. I use my board to control VG99 and TC Voiceworks hardware + Usine patches), but investing in FC300 in such a case is not the only option, any pedal board will do the job.
> I'm not sure yet, but afraid that when in sysex mode on FC300 with RRC2, the VG99 use it as a proprietary material with exclusive access, disconnecting any other external sysex communication (that mean I'd have to give up with RRC2 and that would be stupid...).
Before Usine, I wasn't able to control both VG99 and other hardware at the same time with FC300, no freedom with most hardware, always a trouble you can't solve...
Hope it helps

[vic1iful]

Thank you, You wrote,: "> I'm not sure yet, but afraid that when in sysex mode on FC300 with RRC2, the VG99 use it as a proprietary material with exclusive access, disconnecting any other external sysex communication (that mean I'd have to give up with RRC2 and that would be stupid...)."

I have the Line 6 already and was getting ready to purchase the VG99 but if I understand the above sentance correctly, I may be better off going with the AXON for my midi Guitar? Then Usine would controll everything always. Am I correct?

I have a Roland 2480 workstation for recording and I will be using Ableton Suite in my Computer. It took years before some ingenious people figured out a way to be able to port wav files from the roland to the computer because Roland loves their exclusivity and does not make their stuff to interact well with other brands so they offer no support for that. That's why I was a little hesitant about using another midi controller with the vg99. If it does not have Rolands RRC2 then I am thinking it will not operate the vg99 to it's capacity.

The question now is, Can I control Usine with a Foot midi controller and activate Songs, scenes, drum signiatures, and effects realtime and all at once? BTW, How do you like your VG 99?
Thanks again

[bsork]

That's why I was a little hesitant about using another midi controller with the vg99. If it does not have Rolands RRC2 then I am thinking it will not operate the vg99 to it's capacity.

I've taken a look at the specification for the VG99, and I'm pretty sure that this is not the case. You can control it using any MIDI controller. The benefits of the FC300 as a controller is the integration of the two units where the FC acts as an "extension" of the VG's own user interface giving you text feedback and a floor operated tuner. As for the RRC2 connection, I don't think it's much more than three connections in one: MIDI In/Out + power. Maybe the transmission rate is higher than the MIDI interface's baud rate of 31250 too, I don't know.

The question now is, Can I control Usine with a Foot midi controller and activate Songs, scenes, drum signiatures, and effects realtime and all at once?Thanks again

Definitely yes.

There are many foot controllers available on the market, and most of them will do a good job controlling your setup no matter what you end up using. This is especially the case when connecting through Usine as you can redefine the messages in the process. An example: all controllers I'm aware of can send different CCs, but not all can send NoteOns. In Usine, it's quite simple to change a given CC to a NoteOn. Or change one channel/CC to another channel/CC. Etc, etc. You can also create patches where one switch redifines the message of another.

Just a few more words about the FC300: It's probably among the most advanced MIDI foot controllers out there. Others may have some functions, a layout or whatever that's better, but with the four different modes and the deep programmability it's very flexible. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm using mine with two different setups: One is without Usine in patch mode in a quite simple setup. With Usine I've used the CC mode where the FC just sends sends info of which pedal is pressed/released/moved, and then that data is reinterpreted and distributed to my guitar rack and internally in Usine. That setup is getting old, so I'm going to change into using the SysEx mode so that Usine can send data back to the FC. The level of information generated within the FC in SysEx mode is the same as in the CC mode, but SysEx mode lets me update all the visuals of the pedal independently of the pedal statuses. (The reason I didn't go for the SysEx mode in the first place, was that the patch was originally for the old and a lot simpler Ground Control, but that one died of old age...) One problem though, is to decide on how the end result should be; what texts to send to the pedal, shall I incorporate some sort of metronome in the LEDs, etc...

I also would like to add a little comparison between Behringer FCB1010 and the FC300. The FCB is a popular controller and I would think rightfully so. (Haven't really tried one, just read the specs.) As I see it, the FCB's is better than the FC in some ways: It's cheaper, it has a real AC power plug, and it has 10 number pedals compared to FC's 2*5 setup. Also it seems easier to program. The FC's is better with the LCD feedback, the flexibility of the various modes, the general programmability, extra CC switches (also under the expression pedals) and expandability with external switches or expression pedals.

Just my NOK 0.02

[vic1iful]

Thank you bsork, That was very helpful. Are you familiar with the Moog MP-201? Have you tried the Axon guitar midi controller. Roland or Axon? I was looking at the Focusrite pro 24 and it looked like the best bang for the buck. If you had to buy it again would you get the same thing or would you choose something else? I am so new to midi guitar and would like to get it right the first time if I can. I already have half a rack full of stuff that I need to get rid of. hehe This Forum is great. Thank you all

[vic1iful]

Oh , as a controller for the computer part of using Usine, would you recomend the Pok with combiwave? of are their other options I need to concider.

[La Tenaille]

Hi,
Can't help you choosing hardware, I only know mine. I agree with all what Bsork wrote about VG and FC.
About VG-99, it's a very good unit, and you can control any parameter the way you want (each one can be assigned to any CC#).
About the FC300, what I meant is it suits perfectly the VG-99 alone, but since I use Usine I've lost all the benefits of this couple (bank names, pedal leds and tuner on the FC300) because the VG-99 takes the whole control of the FC without any possibility to extend its use to other units. The only solution is to switch to CC mode.
That's why I'm so interested in Bsork sysex work
And my "new fear" is if I switch the FC300 to sysex mode I can't prevent the VG99 from taking control of it, even when turning everything off in the VG99 ! Hope it's only caused by RRC2, but that would mean using a transformer and two MIDI cables instead of a single RJ45 cable...

[bsork]

Hi,
And my "new fear" is if I switch the FC300 to sysex mode I can't prevent the VG99 from taking control of it, even when turning everything off in the VG99 ! Hope it's only caused by RRC2, but that would mean using a transformer and two MIDI cables instead of a single RJ45 cable...

Does that mean that you're using the RRC2 between the two, but also MIDI out from one and/or the other to control other stuff?

[La Tenaille]

That's it, I use RRC2 to power and send FC300 CC# to VG99, then VG99 as "thru" to send MIDI to my sound card/Usine. That way I can remote both VG99 and Usine (Usine also transforms some of these CC# to remote my TC VoiceWorks hardware unit).
I've tested your sysex patch with a transformer and midi cable, and will see what happens once I have the stable sysex Usine version.

[vic1iful]

La Tenaille, check out this midi foot controller and how simple they have made Sysex changes to it's program. It is called Liquid foot ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQw9kajy5hc

[La Tenaille]

Hi,
Yes it looks quite simple for a sysex editor... the thing is I'd prefer not to use a new soft when Usine can do the job, and I'm not stuck without sysex for now, it would just be more convenient to check pedals state and display infos on the FC300.

[bsork]

...and the software shown is an editor for the Liquid controller, not some generic product. A lot easier than editing SysEx within the FC300 (which could really use some editor software!), and somewhat easier than editing SysEx within Usine.

A trick if you want to use decimal numbers instead of hex when editing in Usine: Connect the SysEx Editor and an Array Editor!

[vic1iful]

Hi, Was just checking back to see if this situation had been resolved. If so and if there is another link to this would you please let me know? Thankyou

[bsork]

What "situation" are you referring to? I must admit I haven't done much with this patch lately, but I'm still working on it. A mixture of pollen season drowsiness and other things that have priority...

[vic1iful]

I was talking about the patch, yes. I hate pollen season, I have to take allot of antihistamines so I know about the drousiness.

I was wondering also if latenielle has found any answers about overcoming that situation he was having with the f300. May have learned more about the pedal by now. Ya know, sometimes we miss something in the mannel when it's a fairly new piece of equipment. And Roland manuels leave alot to be desired as well.

[La Tenaille]

Hi,
I've made a few tries with RRC2 wiring, all FC300 parameters are off in the VG99 but it still takes control. I've noticed that I could mix Bjork patch messages with VG99 ones... a big uncontrallable mess, the last that talk win !
Perhaps delaying a bit Usine sysex send would wipe VG99 sysex ? I don't know.
For now I'm quite busy, converting a whole band tunes to be played in Usine, so sorry for not reacting quickly

[bsork]

Well, things are moving rather slowly on my part as well... I haven't had the opportunity to work much with the FC300 stuff lately, but a lot of the "base" things are in place.

I can imagine that you can get into trouble by connecting the FC to both the VG99 and Usine at the same time could get a bit messy. I don't think that it's the right way to do it. If you want the FC3 to control both Usine and the VG in different ways, I really think that everything should be routed through Usine. That way you could probably configure different setups where the FC controls either the VG or Usine or both at the same time. From reading the VG manual, it's seems to me that the control the FC has over the VG is quite simple, the most "advanced" feature compared to a "normal" foot controller setup is that you get feedback through the LEDs and the LCD display.

PS Björk is Icelandic and of another gender... DS

[bsork]

HI, sorry to have taken so long with finishing off anything useful for the FC. The thing is that I was well under way creating a rather complicated workspace until I realized I was putting in different ideas that didn't belong in the same workspace. Just to explain, I will probably end up creating two very different workspaces for myself; one for a band setting, and one for playing/looping/etc solo.

My initial idea for an add-on that some other could use, was first to create my own "monster", then dissect it and remove stuff for more general consumption. After I found out I was on the wrong track, and a longer period of laziness, I realized that the best way to go about it was to separate the functionality into smaller parts, which would make creating something useful easier both for me and (hopefully) for others as well.

Announcement of the add-on

[creart]

@bsork Hi I was wondering if you would be willing to mail me the sysex messages you used? I want to try making an editor for FC300 using Max Msp but so far I only manage to get text in there... I hope you can help...
cheers Hans

[bsork]

Well, I used the manual as my basis for the programming. As it happpens, just over a month ago I uploaded updated scripts for Hollyhock: http://www.sensomusic.org/forums/uploads.php?file=FC300_SendSYX_Messages.fastscript. Those might help you.

I don't have any list to show you. A couple of things to note: Unlike in the old Usine versions, incoming sysex have been stripped of the start and end bytes. Another thing to have in mind that I remember a little about, is that the manual has some errors: I think the addresses of the different segments of the LED number display was upside-down or something, and there was one or two errors in the addresses, but if you use the manual and the scripts together, hopefully you don't have to waste time with that.

Unless there are several versions of the FC300 software, you also shouldn't need to bother with calculating check sums in the messages you send. I kept it in the script as I had already programmed before I found out it wasn't really necessary.

[creart]

Hi bsork.... Very cool!!! Obviously I have to rewrite your program but I'm sure I can work it out!!
I tried working from the sysex manual but didn't get the result I expected and could not for the life of me explain why that is... Since you already had some working result (as I understood), this should be of getting me closer
Thanks for sharing!!!!!

cheers Hans

[dabda]

Thank you bsork, That was very helpful coque huawei P10.

[guussie]

...and the software shown is an editor for the Liquid controller, not some generic product. A lot easier than editing SysEx within the FC300 (which could really use some editor software!), and somewhat easier than editing SysEx within Usine.

A trick if you want to use decimal numbers instead of hex when editing in Usine: Connect the SysEx Editor and an Array Editor!






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