problem with Usine and ASP1010

[martignasse]

Hello all,

I have a big problem,

I bought a ESP1010 soundcard and no way to make it run with usine.

It run ok with other soft (Sonar LE in ASIO mode, Live 4.1.5 en ASIO mode) but i have some big sound glitch in usine, especialy when i select a window.

Let say i play the conductor demo in usine, and will playing, i select the interface builder window, exactly when mousedown, the audio seem's to freeze until i move the window or the mouse.

I tested with different latency, no changes.
I tested on two defferent PC (but with same intel IHC8R schipset) and same result.

I'm kind of desesperate

Does anyone have an ESP1010 soundcard who is working with usine ?

I see two possibilities :
- or there is an incompatibility between the ESP1010 and the IHC8R (but why the problem exist just with usine, and not the other soft)

- or the probleme is between usine and the ESP1010 ASIO driver, but nothing special can be noticed in the usine log file.

I hope someone can help me, i bought this ESP1010 especialy for usine...

[edit]
oups, a mistack in the title, sbould be ESP1010 instead of ASP1010. can someone can modify the title ?
[/edit]

[senso]

hello,
Did you try with Asio4all universal driver?

[martignasse]

hy senso,

yep, i tested with Asio4All, and the result is worse, as it finished with the track 1 and 3 completly satured.

with the ESI official driver, it just put some random glitch and the mouse probleme on the output, but with the Asio4All, it seem's to feedback some strange things in the souncard so i didn't make lot of test.

[martignasse]

ok,

so i had time to make one another Asio4All try before go to work and it seem's to be ok (just tested few minutes).

i had to choice the "use hardware buffer" option.

i'll make some more test this evening, i hope it's the solution.
I'll lose the mixing and the directwire from the official driver but a least, if i can make the thing working, it will be ok for now.

[martignasse]

hello,

after some more test with the Asio4All drivers, i manage to make it work quite well, at least with the conductor demo workspace :

ASIO Buffer Size = 64
Latency compensation :
in = 0 samples
out = 0 samples

Using Hardware Buffers not enabled
Kernel buffer = 4

but noway to see the latency this setup produce.


I'm now investigating on the ESP1010 side, asking on forums to others ESP1010 users if they can test it with usine, to definitly know if the probleme come from my config.

anyway, at least, i have Asio4All to make it work, but i really want to solve this official driver issue. I'll surely ask on the constructor forums if they can make something, if this problem is reproducted by others.

PS : is it possible that a RAID 0 HD config (the two config i have use RAID 0 HD) can be the problem ?

[senso]

I can't really help you.
The only thing I know is that it's harder to build a good driver than the sound card itself...

ASIO Buffer Size = 64

64 is a very small value for a normal sound card...

[martignasse]

yep, but it seem's that the ESP1010 isn't a "normal sound card", i saw somes review where they add less than 3ms latency with 20 track full of VST.

and even with 1024, i can't use the official driver, so..

With the config i bought especially for the ESP and usine, i normally should have some good result :
core 2 duo 6400
2*1Go RAM DDR2 533
2*250Go HDD in RAID 0


one more thing i didn't test is to not use HD in RAID, but i can't believe it's the solution.

thanks anyway for this fantastic soft

[Vincent]

Hi Martignasse

I see you finally managed to make it work. Congratulations!

Well, I have some questions.
I've plan to build very soon a whole brand new machine (except for my audio card).
Is your motherboard a 2proc?
What kind/brand of proc did you buy?

I think I finally decide for an Intel Motherboard CM 2 processors (socket 771 at 667MHz) with 2 Xeon 3GHz DualCore and 4x1Go DDR2 (667MHz) Kingston RAM. I'll also add a second SATA HD.
All this in a rack-case (it will stay in the flight case).
What do you think? Is it gonna work fine?
It's really difficult to make a good choice, even not considering the prices...

BTW, I don't think your SATA RAID has something to do with your sound pb. It seems weird. Surely just a driver fancy? Unfortunately, I don't know your audio card. Less than 3ms latency, hmm, interesting!

[martignasse]

I see you finally managed to make it work. Congratulations!

well, at least it work with the Asio4All driver, but the official driver is known to be very optimised and i really want to find why, on my machine, it refuse to work with usine.
I had a feedback on audiofanzine of someone who use it with usine with no problem, so there is something wrong in my config, and i want to find it.

Well, I have some questions.
I've plan to build very soon a whole brand new machine (except for my audio card).
Is your motherboard a 2proc?
What kind/brand of proc did you buy?

i put around 1000 euros to buy this :
Antec NSK1300-EC - Mini Desktop
Intel Core 2 Duo E6400
Crucial 2 Go (Kit 2x 1 Go) DDR2-SDRAM PC5300
MSI G965MDH-FI (Intel G965 Express) - Micro ATX
Samsung SH-S183A - DVD
2 * Samsung SpinPoint P - SP2504C - 250 Go
ESP1010 - interface PCI 10 entrées/10 sorties

it's a good little config
i choosse microATX and a little barbone case, to have maximu mobility

Like you see, i have just one proc, but it's a dual core.

I don't know if it's valuable to take a bi-proc motherboard, the probleme is now constructor change the socket format very frequently, and you just cant upgrade you'r config by remplacing the proc, you have to replace the motherboard too.

I think it's all depend of the price difference between one-proc and bi-proc motherboard. and dont forget the quad core option (one quad core nearly equal two dual core)

I think I finally decide for an Intel Motherboard CM 2 processors (socket 771 at 667MHz) with 2 Xeon 3GHz DualCore and 4x1Go DDR2 (667MHz) Kingston RAM. I'll also add a second SATA HD.
All this in a rack-case (it will stay in the flight case).
What do you think? Is it gonna work fine?
It's really difficult to make a good choice, even not considering the prices...

Like i said, maybe one quad core is better than two dual core, if the bi proc motherboard price is high. And choose some Xeon with a FSB1066 or FSB1333.

yes, the Rack + flight case is shourly better than a classic case, but be carreful, you'll end up with a very heavy set.

For the HD, you should use RAID 0, who double the data flow, so at least two identic HD, and a RAID controler.

Anyway, at this level, it should work well, for sure.

BTW, I don't think your SATA RAID has something to do with your sound pb. It seems weird. Surely just a driver fancy? Unfortunately, I don't know your audio card. Less than 3ms latency, hmm, interesting!

I tested yesterday without the RAID, complete reinstall , and same result, so it's effectivly not the RAID fault.
the problem is so stange, cause appear only with usine, i suspect a combinaison of the motherboard chipset (Intel G965 Express), the official ESP driver and usine way of dealing E/S sound data flow.

here and extract of a test of this ESP1010 card :

"I've been working with the unit since I got it at 1ms latency (yup, ONE millisecond!) and have never had to go higher!... and that is with never a crackle or pop or any other such problem.
The ESP1010 just seems to have remarkably well written drivers, it's so efficient! - I took the unit down to the local studio a few times to record a couple of bands as a test, and each time it easily coped with recording the 8 simultaneous tracks of the backing @ 1ms latency, and then has carried on at that low rate while doing all the additional overdub work of extra guitars & vocals etc.
This was all done using the ESP1010 with an old AMD 2000XP machine with a VIA chipset, so not a new wizz-bang machine, yet despite this, we could track and overdub the sessions @ 1ms latency while running around 12 compressors, numerous Eq's and other plugins as well as some master effects such as reverbs, delays and some master OUT FX such as multiband compressor and enhancers etc... Great stuff! "

the complet test is available here :
http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/hard ... 905&lang=0


sorry for this sooooo long post, but it seem's like i need to express myself

[Vincent]

Hey Martignasse!

Thanks for your advices about my DAW project.
I'll definitely use a rack computer case (expensive!) because I have also to rack my two amplifiers and my small console. I've found nice flight for this stuff.

I've been looking to your link to the ESI ESP1010.
I use approximately the same audio system with MME/WDE/ASIO/GSIF connections, as I needed GSIF for GigaStudio, but it's only a 4/4. A few audio cards provide GSIF.
I think you should look to your "ESI DIRECTWIRE" configuration and take care to set all Usine's audio to ASIO. You don't need ASIO4ALL with that audio card, it should work perfect. But, well, I did not manage to exactly understand the use of ASIO4ALL, its does not work at all with my ECHO...
You don't need to route the 10 Audio Outs of Usine to the 10 audio in of your audio card, I route them all to my first audio out. Since I'm doing only stereo music, it works fine. Do that in Usine's Setup/Audio Out. That can leave room for other standalone audio applications (GigaStudio in my case).
Don't loose heart, your system must work!

[martignasse]

Thanks for your advices about my DAW project.
I'll definitely use a rack computer case (expensive!) because I have also to rack my two amplifiers and my small console. I've found nice flight for this stuff.

If you have link or adress for flight or flight case, i'm interested

I've been looking to your link to the ESI ESP1010.
I use approximately the same audio system with MME/WDE/ASIO/GSIF connections, as I needed GSIF for GigaStudio, but it's only a 4/4. A few audio cards provide GSIF.
I think you should look to your "ESI DIRECTWIRE" configuration and take care to set all Usine's audio to ASIO. You don't need ASIO4ALL with that audio card, it should work perfect. But, well, I did not manage to exactly understand the use of ASIO4ALL, its does not work at all with my ECHO...
You don't need to route the 10 Audio Outs of Usine to the 10 audio in of your audio card, I route them all to my first audio out. Since I'm doing only stereo music, it works fine. Do that in Usine's Setup/Audio Out. That can leave room for other standalone audio applications (GigaStudio in my case).
Don't loose heart, your system must work!

Basicly, i dont use DIRECTWIRE for now, i just try to have clean output from usine.
DIRECTWIRE is used to reinject output of any kind of driver in the input of the card.

Asio4All is just used in replacement of the official driver in the setup page of usine.
it work well, but i dont know if i loose the DIRECTWIRE and the control panel fonctionnality (essentialy for the preamp gain).

[Vincent]

If you have link or adress for flight or flight case, i'm interested

http://www.levenly.com/fr/r/6/flight-case.html
http://www.thomann.de/fr/search.html?sw ... =9&gk=&bn=
my choice: http://www.levenly.com/fr/a/761/audioph ... rack4.html#

[bsork]

Hello Vincent, I know this is a bit off topic (sorry martignasse), but how do you access the same audio card from different programs at the same time - apparently through the same driver? I thought that ASIO drivers per definition allowed only one connection at the time.

[Vincent]

Hi Bjørn, and sorry martignasse, you can throw us outside!
Well, I probably won't have the technical words to explain it, but it's not really magical...
I have on my Echo Audio 8 "ports" (like tracks), that is 4 stereo ports or whatever I want (martignasse have 10 stereo ports). I can plug each soft to any port in its respective setup window. Usine uses ports 1 and 2, and they use ASIO driver. GigaStudio uses ports 3 and 4 and I turned them to GSIF driver. Since I have sometimes to edit some audio samples with CoolEdit Pro, I plugged it to the 5th and 6th ports, turned to PureWave driver. All other audio applications that I never use together are plugged on ports 7 and 8 (ASIO again).
My audio card has a virtual mixing console allowing me to route a group or all the mixed audio to analog and/or digital outputs. My audio card is an internal 4in/4out. Martignasse has an external 10in/10out. Am I right, martignasse?

[bsork]

Thanks for the explanation, I think I understand. The Echo interface has another "layer" in the setup that's not present in simpler interfaces like my own. I do similar things by using two different ASIO drivers, but AFAIK there's no way to use the same driver twice or more. Asio4All works ok and is very practical when using the internal sound card, but it sure takes more CPU than the other driver.

[martignasse]

I know this is a bit off topic (sorry martignasse)

No problem, it's an interesting technical question and it make the thread active.....
and maybe, sometime, someone will come and save me with this *%$@£!! driver/config problem

Hi Bjørn, and sorry martignasse, you can throw us outside!
Well, I probably won't have the technical words to explain it, but it's not really magical...
I have on my Echo Audio 8 "ports" (like tracks), that is 4 stereo ports or whatever I want (martignasse have 10 stereo ports).

In fact, the ESP1010 have 8 analogic mono in/out and 2 numeric mono in/out, so end up with a total of 5 stereo in/out.

I can plug each soft to any port in its respective setup window. Usine uses ports 1 and 2, and they use ASIO driver. GigaStudio uses ports 3 and 4 and I turned them to GSIF driver. Since I have sometimes to edit some audio samples with CoolEdit Pro, I plugged it to the 5th and 6th ports, turned to PureWave driver. All other audio applications that I never use together are plugged on ports 7 and 8 (ASIO again).
My audio card has a virtual mixing console allowing me to route a group or all the mixed audio to analog and/or digital outputs. My audio card is an internal 4in/4out. Martignasse has an external 10in/10out. Am I right, martignasse?

the ESP1010 work the same, with DIRECTWIRE to make virtual patching off in/ou between different drivers.
You can go to the review thru the link given earlier, at the end, it's explained the way DIRECTWIRE work.
Like i said, the ESP1010 is 5 stereo in/out (not so bad for 250 euros)

[Vincent]

Martignasse,
You should not use ASIO4ALL with your audio car. There must be a solution.
What's your setup in DIRECTWIRE?
What other soft do you run, including your common wave player?
In last resort, could you change your audio card to another of the same type with ASIO driver included? I can say that with my ECHO, everything works OK. Maybe have a look to this one which is a little bit more expensive than yours. Or to mine, which is a little less expensive...
But well, I'm sure your ESP 1010 must work fine... There must be a solution. Sorry for my incompetence!

[martignasse]

well vincent,

i'm completly agree with you, the Asio4All is just a replacement solution, i must found the problem.

no way to change the audiocard, it's just all what i need, essentialy the number of input and the two monitors.

I dont use the DIRECTWIRE, at least for now. i just choose the driver on the setup page and play the conductor demo workspace, who produce only one stereo output.
No need to redirect some output/input.

the fact is the problem just come up with usine, the test i made with the official driver in Sonar LE, ASIO mode and Live 4.1.5, ASIO mode was just fine, 2ms latency in live, if i remenber......but to many test in my head these days 8-( .

i suspect the trio intel G965 Express chipset + usine + official driver to produce the problem.
And because it occure only with usine with a very strange behiavour (some random audio glitch, but a king of audio buffer freeze when a push down the mouse button, for approximativly one seconde, or until i move it or push up) i ask myself if it can be related with the way usine deal with input/output/graphic. But the usine log file just say nothing special.

question to senso : is it possible to make a debug version to track down the audio buffer and the mouse activity ?

Anyway, i can say that i'd prefer to make some good add-ons and share some great knowledge than tracking this mad problem.

[senso]

Not so easy to debug this kind of problem.
I should try the sound card myself... no so impossible if you somewhere in France!!!
I looks like the pb comes from "thread priority" management.
I will send you a new version in let say two weeks (I'm on tour, I can't do it right now). Don't worry we'll find a solution.
By experience I know that 99.99% of troubles like this comes from a soft pb: Usine or other installed (conflict) soft.
Did you try the dual core optimization (enabled/disabled) in the set up?

[martignasse]

hi senso,

yep, i like said in my profil, i'm in Lyon, and no problem to let you check the beast if you come near the place.

No probleme to wait for a special version, you'r kind enough to make a version especialy for my case, so

oups, i completly forget the dual core optimisation option, shame on me, it's the first thing i'll do when come back at home.

and i think to it's a low level soft problem.

anyway, thanks to try something......after i tested this dual core option

[martignasse]

no change with the dual core optimisation, aaaargh, it what so beautyfull.

[senso]

hello Martignasse
did you receive the new version by mail (mfleurent@...)?

[martignasse]

hello,

Yes, i receive it, i tested just now and mail you the feedback by mail, in french.

For short and for other to know, it change nothing to my problem (

But i don't desesperate to find a solution...


PS : and maybe see you in LYON the 8th, but i fly to montreal the 9th.

[martignasse]

i juste tested with the new 2.85beta,

it's always the same

i don't now if you done some specific work in this version for this problem.

i have to admit it is very frustrating, even if i know it's a very specific problem (just me concerned).

it's just like if i bought a ferrari running in mode "2CV"

PS : i don't know if you investigate this Windows bug workaround.

anyway, many happiness with this new version , even if i'm far to exploit all these new features.

A+

[senso]

I'm sorry I didn't work on this bug because it's impossible to see what append without the sound card it self.
Try to look on place at Lyon?

[martignasse]

I'm sorry I didn't work on this bug because it's impossible to see what append without the sound card it self.
Try to look on place at Lyon?

no problem, i just needed to express my frustration
at least, i'm happy that you didn't try something who didnt work.

yep, try to look that when you'll by at lyon (8 june), have to mail you for details.

A+

[martignasse]

hi,

I bring back this thread just to let you know the good news.

A driver update for my ESP1010 soundcard seem's to solve my problem.

I have deeper test to do, but i'm happy cause i' have already better results than with the Asio4All.

that's it, i'm happy.

[senso]

cool!

[Vincent]

i'm happy cause i' have already better results than with the Asio4All.

Of course! Good new, martignasse, I'm happy for you.
Since Usine is becoming a heavy soft in the music-soft world, improvements will more and more take Usine's power into account.
Thanks for your feedback.

[JamminFool]

first of all, let me say hi and thanks for making a free version of this intriquing software available.

i am in the process of evaluating whether it suits my needs, but in the process i have encountered an issue which i would like to share.

since the forum anti-spam system requires that i post in an existing thread before starting a new subject, i have chosen this one since it most closely represents the issue which i am encountering:

when i use my echo indigo audio device (latest driver 7.3) for ASIO on my laptop, i get a very annoying noise (loud buzz - not sure what the right word is - ) when audio is running and i move an object or simply click on the title bar of a dialog box in usine (for example click on title bar in setup dialog).

i have tried increasing and decreasing the buffer size (i use 128 normally), shutting off hardware acceleration and various other things, but nothing changes this behaviour at all.

ASIO4ALL works perfectly with the onboard audio. no noise at all when doing the same actions.

so there is some problem in interacting with the driver, as far as i can tell.

since i want to use the indigo sound card (for various reasons) i am hoping someone can point me to the solution, or a bug fix can be issued, if necessary.

does anyone else use the echo indigo successfully?

[senso]

It's not really normal!
run usine and send me the LogUsine.log by mail at contact@sensomusic.com

[JamminFool]

thanks for your attention. the file is on it's way.

[JamminFool]

as a quick follow-up for others searching this forum in the future, this problem was fixed almost immediately after i submitted the log file to olivier for analysis...

very impressive.

[bsork]

So what was the solution? Was it something very specifically with the interface, or..?

[JamminFool]

hi,
i don't know the specifics, but olivier sent me a version of usine which fixed the problem very shortly after i sent him the log file. it was apparently a fix with respect to the ASIO sync code...(?).

ah, i see that v3.52 has been released. this is the same version number which appeared on the version he sent me, so i assume the fix is in the latest drop.

[senso]

no you received an intermediate version, not "official".
I'll post the update in the download section very soon.

[JamminFool]

cool.

and thanks again!