Sensory manipulation

tpresto · Unread post by **tpresto** » 21 Mar 2011, 23:41

So, I hope this doesn't come across as too bizarre, but here goes, anyway:

Humans hear in stereo only -- that is, we only have left and right inputs -- yet we interpret sound in three dimensions. For example, we're able to tell that someone is clapping behind us, up on a ten foot ladder. We can tell when something making only a slight noise whips over our head at high speeds. Someone yells our names from a hundred yards, yet we are able to turn our heads in their direction immediately.

How can we, as musicians mimic this, and use it to our advantage?

I want to be able to take advantage of this aspect of auditory processing! I would imagine this would be possible with a panner + stereo reverb + stereo delay VST. It would be amazing if there were a VST that did this! One with, say, a human avatar (representing the listener) standing in a 3 dimensional space, and the user would be able to move a cursor (representing a sound source) around in this three dimensional space . The incoming audio would be three-dimensionalized in the VST, and the outgoing audio would put the listener in the perspective of the avatar.

Is this even making sense?!

Does anyone know of anything like this? Or know how to make usine do this?

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 22 Mar 2011, 00:03

it's a pb i thought about from a while, but the only thing that could really work imo are the so called bi-naural simulations,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
there are various pgm and vst based on binaural system you can google.
like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F54AVw-diMg
the thing is : they are working great, .....but only on headphones. after thinking a lot about this, i think it is impossible to achieve on usual stereo, (often mono) pa. exept maybe quadri, 5.1 or multi-speaker systems, there is no real way to simulate 3D placement, cause all the auditors will be in different places with differents phases and stereo -width. binaural work cause the sound is close to your ears, simulating what you would really hear, won't work really good in open space far speakers sadly.

bin-naural stuff however is very fun and quite interesting to experiment, give a shot.
another tool that can pseudo-simulate is waveart panorama
http://wavearts.com/products/plugins/panorama/

tpresto · Unread post by **tpresto** » 22 Mar 2011, 00:55

23fx23,

This is awesome. It is precisely what I was looking for! Are you aware of anything like this that is freeware VST? I tried KVRaudio.com, but there were no freeware softs.

By the way, have you tried the virtual haircut?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgeFdOayeaw

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 22 Mar 2011, 05:12

try:

http://www.savioursofsoul.de/Christian/ ... o-plugins/
http://www.audiomastermind.com/browse-s ... 575-2.html

Or search for HRTF

HTH!
-e

23fx23 · Unread post by **23fx23** » 22 Mar 2011, 05:16

edit: crosspost

lol nice the haircut, i was affraid the cuts my ears!! quite realistic!

i will try to have a look if i can find back some freeware,i don't recall one atm but there must surely exist some....
..one was interesting , not freeware and real binaural, but 30$ for a quite realistic reverb with 3D placement system from melda production. http://www.meldaproduction.com/mreverb/

maybe a usine patch could give good results, as you said with doppler/delay based on math calculation of distance from center, and some filter to lowpass when far/behind more than near/in front/. and of course extreme panning. then maybe tweaking a true stereo source reverb could help giving more realism..from what i feel ear left receive a signal from right lower,tiny later, and with few hi frequencies blocked vs right ear cause of the shadowing of the head and vice versa. im sure Mr caco could have nice tricks about this...

nay-seven · Unread post by **nay-seven** » 22 Mar 2011, 08:37

and next step will be the multi surround Pack from H.Birolini :

http://www.sensomusic.com/download/_PACKS_/Surround%20Pack%20v1.0%20by%20Herve%20Birolini.zip

caco · Unread post by **caco** » 22 Mar 2011, 08:51

Plus there is my upcoming Csound module, which comes with a lot of Panning and Spatialization features including HRTF, binaural, ambisonics etc, etc

See http://csounds.com/manual/html/SigmodPanspatl.html for some examples of what you will be able to do using Csound in Usine

headphoner · Unread post by **headphoner** » 22 Mar 2011, 10:08

Hi,

some documentation about "virtual haircut" and hugo zuccarelli

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holophonics

tpresto · Unread post by **tpresto** » 24 Mar 2011, 19:38

Awesome! I will keep working with this, and keep all posted on any progress.

goyya76 · Unread post by **goyya76** » 28 Mar 2011, 18:17

hi all, i quickly scrolled through the discussion - don't know if it's on topic, anyway...i remember some time ago i've seen some hi-fi system by Yamaha which claimed to give surround sound with just two units....

http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-vi ... mode=model

ciao,
Goyya

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