reverse midi

[unguitar]

Hi, I need to have the same midi controller have reversed control over two audio outputs:
when fader is up = output 1 is 0% and output b is -100%
when fader is down = output 1 is -100% and output b is 0%.
I set two faders ( controlled by the same midi controller) to control the volume thinking that when setting "max value to -100% and min value 0%" it could go negative ( reacting the opposite from max value 0% and min value -100%).
I searched if there was something like a "reverse value" in the math module but I didn't find anything.
Any solution ?
thanks

[bsork]

Use one fader and reverse the value going to output b using the A-B math module: A (constant value = the max value from the fader) - B (from fader).

An even simpler solution for audio would be to use the Audio Cross Fade module and assign a fader to the cross input.

[senso]

you are a master bsork!

[unguitar]

Ok,
but is there a way to reverse the midi control giving maximum a negative value and minimum a positive one ?
thanks

[bsork]

Not directly, you'll have to use a bit of math to reverse min and max. If what you want is to create and send out a new MIDI message, you can do that as well, and you can simplyfy things a bit utilising the fact that the Usine modules ignores any illegal data values (like for instance CC values < 0).

[unguitar]

Hi,
I am going deeper so here is my question:
the module A-B does what is needed but when the value is in the middle both the result is zero.
I need something to allow me a crossing, meaning that when the value is at half I have both values at +/-50%, up is +100%/-100%, down -100%/+100%.
Does this exist ?
Thanks,

[bsork]

Maybe I'm a bit slow (it's Moday morning), but I don't quite understand how the scaling of your data should look like, especially the "both values at +/-50%" part...

Do you mean it should look something like this:
output 1): fader down -100, in the middle +50, up +100
output 2): fader down +100, in the middle -50, up -100

That one would require some thinking...

(By the way, I just realized a simple workaround if you need output values from incoming MIDI data where the mathematical relationship between them isn't as simple as in the earlier example of reversing the data with the A-B module: Add more faders and have them controlled by the same MIDI data. If the output needs a max value < min value, you'd still have to add a bit of math, though.)

[senso]

yes, you are right bsork,
the relation between in and out is not linear, so we cant use the A*in+B module.

we suppose you want some thing like:

output 1): fader down -100, in the middle +50, up +100
output 2): fader down +100, in the middle -50, up -100

For me, the first is very close to the exponential scale.

for the first out take a fader and set:
MIN = -100
MAX = 100
SCALE = EXP

for the second, the same as above but multiplies the out by -1.

I think it gives good results to solve your problem?

[unguitar]

Hi guys, I think I'm unclear, so I try to explane you what I need to do, so that it can be easier:
I need to place an efx ( hardware) that is taking the output of (Mobius) and processing it.
I need to crossfade between the dry and processed signal so that, ideally, when the fader is in the middle position, you have half processed and half dry sound.

I need to put the same concept on some other controls as well but the procedure should be the same.
Please note that I am not using aux tracks to do this, I work in the channel flow ( if it is useful to know...).

One more note: I uploaded the 2.4 version ( great interface Olivier !) but I have very strange behaviours of my midi controllers: graphical faders are inconsistent: if I move the faders they are showing partial results ( for example: midi fader all up: midi values shown correctly at 127 but graphical fader at 82%).

thanks thanks thanks

[senso]

why don't you use the cross-fade module (audio folder) ?
Does exactly what you want with a single control.

graphical faders are inconsistent: if I move the faders they are showing partial results ( for example: midi fader all up: midi values shown correctly at 127 but graphical fader at 82%).

I didn't noticed this bug. Works normally on my systems.
I'll take a look.

[unguitar]

Hi Olivier,
I need to split a signal to two different inputs, not mixing two inputs to the same output.
I would eventually need a cross fade with one input and two outputs ( the opposite of cross fader).
But beside this I am at the same time controlling another thing, so here I explane it all:

Mobius output has to be split to go to a specific direct out ( the "loop out" which has specific hw outputs and to an efx processor ( here I need what I described before).
This efx processor is set to have two possible outputs: one is the "main output" and the other is "loop out".
When I decide to have the Mobius processed by it I need the efx processor to be routed to the "loop out", when it isn't used to process the loop it has to go to the "main out".
Main out and loop out are two different couples hw outputs.
Hope this is making this need clearer.

Regarding the midi problem I can tell you that I loaded into 2.4 my Master and Workspace files together with the .inf files that are running perfect with Usine 2.001.
I even tried to use the learn thing to go over them but it seems that midi faders of Usine 2.4 are not fast enough to catch the incoming midi. Both Usine and Midiox are showing that the correct values are received. The only solution is to move the hw faders veeeery slow to let Usine catch them.

my best,

[senso]

Hello,

I'm not shure, I really understand, but I feel that your problem is simpler than appears...

You need a kind of dispatcher, witch does exactly the inverse of the "cross fade" module:
1 in --> 2 out (1 & 2)


let's have a DISPATCH fader, value from 0 to 1
0 means out 1 only
1 means out 2 only
0.5 mix equal out 1 & out 2 -6db each (the normal mix value)

in that case very simple :
out 1 = (1-DISPATCH) x In 1
out 2 = (DISPATCH) x In 1

if now you want
0 means out 1 only
1 means out 2 only
0.5 mix equal out 1 & out 2 with 0db each

Create a DISPATCH fader from 0 to 2

out 1 = MIN(1,(2-DISPATCH)) x In 1
out 2 = MIN(1,(DISPATCH)) x In 1

with MIN a "min" module in math folder
I hope I'm clear....

If you want to avoid clicks when you move the DISPATCH fader, use the Data/smoother module, to have smooth variations.

I even tried to use the learn thing to go over them but it seems that midi faders of Usine 2.4 are not fast enough to catch the incoming midi.

It looks strange. Because the MIDI engine is the same in the 2.001 and 2.4 except the sysex manipulation.

Usine is build to receive up to 512 midi codes per 1.5 ms, witch is around 10 times the midi bandwidth.

Are you shure that you didn't change the MIDI driver or your hardware configuration?

Can you test the 2.001 and the 2.4 with the same workspace and tell me if you notice a difference, for example with a single midi learn on a fader.

[unguitar]

Olivier,
I think we should meet
No way to make the dispatch work as I need.
The change between the two outputs is very abrupt.

I am sorry Usine can't solve this, a simple mix module or a serious midi cross fader would make it so simple.

Regarding the midi problem:
I didn't change anything in my setup
everything works perfect with 2.001
Midi is coming in correctly ( as shown in the midi flow box and in midiox)

It really seems it's a problem with faders and their reaction. They can't catch all the data which is sent to them.

I just hope this things can be useful for you, I hope I am not considered just a picky musician...

I wish Usine can be my definitive live environment: this is probably the last step to solve for it to become the ideal one.

My best

[senso]

I feel that your problem is very simple.
Could you explain it, in other words?
Many friends use Usine to do this king of stuff.
I'm sure that we can solve it!

I can't explain why the midi doesn't work on your system. I will send you a beta release, with the sysex disabled.
Other question: what is your configuration?

[unguitar]

Olivier,
I am sending you some files pm.
My hw set up is:
Win Xp on Toshiba Laptop, Rme FF400 interface, Doepfer midi fader.
Plus some hw efx ( Eventide and Tc Electronics).
Let's see if we can do it !
thanks