How can I recall my own VST presets?

[La Tenaille]

Hello,

The VSTs have 3 ways to recall presets:
- load preset
- load bank
- program presets (the built in presets)

Only the program presets can be managed from usine with the program pin (I still haven't found the way to do that but I imagine it's possible?). I can save and load manually my own adjustments, but I can't find a way to recall them automatically.
Do you have an advice?

Thanks

[amiga909]

connect the preset in pin of your vst with a combo box (or drag with ctrl hold down)
-> will be saved in the conductor

[ethnix73]

Hi La Tenaille,

If you make your own preset in a VST, save your workspace. When you load it, your preset will be automatically loaded within the VST.

You can also recall your preset in a patch with the preset manager module (in interface control).

[La Tenaille]

Hi amiga909,
There is no "preset in" pin in a VST combo box, only "program" for the built in presets...

Hello ethnix73,
The trouble is I'd like to change a preset inside a patch, without changing patch.
How does the preset module works? It seems I can't store a whole VST configuration with it.

[ethnix73]

The program pin allow to change your preset....

The state of your Vst is saved within your workspace and also your patch. You don't have to load another patch.

Put a preset manager module in your patch. Select the first preset you've done in your VST, and store it in the preset manager (press S and 1 on the preset manager), and then select the second preset you've done and store it (press S and 2 in the preset manager), and so on...

It's usually easier than what you think in Usine.

[noise2sine]

Hello,

How can i manage to control the presets managers with my conductor ?

[amiga909]

to store the preset manager in the conducter connect a combo interface module to the preset manager 'num' input pin.

[La Tenaille]

Hello everybody
At last I did it! I've plugged the VST "program" out pin to the "store" in of the preset manager and it works.
Is it the good wiring method?

The thing I'd like to understand is why I don't need to plug the "store" out back to the "program" in of my VST? How do the preset manager send back the signal to the VST? I thought that the right pins of the combo boxes were "outs" and left pins "in", it's not the case? The signal can travel in both ways in my wire?

[amiga909]

still far away from understanding usine en detail. 2 general things I did not get at first but - I believe now - are crucial for usine:
1:

The signal can travel in both ways in my wire?

yes. control connections in usine are bidirectional.
if you know synthedit: synthedit's GUI connections are bidirectional too.

2:
when you do subpatches in usine you need to place interface modules for the params you'd like to have accessable from the parent. similar for the conductor. seems like interface modules act as variables, to make module params public ('public' as in programming languages).

said this b4: usine IS complex. yet it incorporates highly complex paradigms in the easiest way possible

[bsork]

The "wires" in Usine are NOT bi-directional - the signal travels only one way, from outlets to inlets.

Usine's Preset Manager has nothing to do with handling the presets/programs/patches (a beloved child has many names, as we say in Norway) of VSTs, it will store and retrieve all the values in the patch (except of course when explicitly told not to using the context menu). You shouldn't actually need to connect anything to the program input of a VST to have it saved by the PM, and in my experience you can just as well have a program selected on the VST with some (or all!) parameters changed and the PM will retrieve the settings as they where when that slot last was saved. As for myself, I practically never store VST presets unless I'm just fooling around and want to save something for later without using it immediately.

To try to rephrase the matter a bit: Usine stores the VST settings just like most other VST hosts. Eg in Cubase you can load up a preset and change settings and it will be saved with the project. What differs in Usine is that you can take several "snapshots" of the settings and recall them. In other hosts you would have to use some sort of automation to change the settings of a single instance of a VST inside a project/file/song.

Hope this helps.

[La Tenaille]

Hi bsork and thank you for the explanation: I've deleted all my wires from the PM and everything works fine

the signal travels only one way, from outlets to inlets

In other words, does it mean that all the left pins of a box are inputs, and right pins outputs?

to store the preset manager in the conducter connect a combo interface module to the preset manager 'num' input pin.

I've dragged the combo box from the PM num left pin. My preset names appear correctly in the combo.
2 troubles:
-> the PM and the combo are not synchronized, I mean changing preset in this combo doesn't change the corresponding PM preset.
Then I've tried to manually sync each combo bank by storing it with the store PM function: the combo becomes slave and follow the PM presets, but it still doesn't work in the other way. The conductor stores the combo state, but not the PM state...
-> second touble: if I add a new preset in the PM, the combo list is not updated; is it a limitation?

[bsork]

In other words, does it mean that all the left pins of a box are inputs, and right pins outputs?

Yes.

If you want to use both a combo box (or a fader for that matter) to choose presets in the PM and also be able to choose presets directly on the PM and have the combo box selection (not the names, see below) updated, you will have to connect the PM's "num" outlet through an Event Control/Pass Only If Has Changed and then to the "list" input of the combo box. How PMs and the conductor work together the best I don't quite recall right now; have to come to this when I have time (but please tell us what you come up with!).

-> second touble: if I add a new preset in the PM, the combo list is not updated; is it a limitation?

Sort of a limitation, yes, but it's a consequence of the uni-directionality of the signal flow. On the surface it might seem that there's a signal flowing "backwards" since the combo box is created with the same list as whatever it's connected to, but that's just a part of creating the combo box object. Similar stuff happens also when for instance a fader is created when it inherits min/max values etc, it is just so more obvious with the various kinds of list boxes. If you want to have a control that you don't have to update with names from the PM, use a fader instead (min=0, max=7, prec=integer). Another workaround if you want to have updated names in both the PM and combo box is to update the name in the PM, ctrl-drag and create a new combo box, dbl-click the new combo box and copy the text that pops up, dbl-click the old combo box and paste the text over the existing text, and at last delete the new combo box. Less typing, and no need to reconnect. You could of course also only update the names in the existing combo box and ignore what names are used in the PM, just remember to put each selection on a new line.

If you're mostly going to retrieve the presets (or conductor scenes) by using MIDI CCs or PCs, I think a fader is the most practical solution since you probably don't look to much on the text on-screen anyway before doing it.

[La Tenaille]

I've tried a little practice from your advices bsork. My goal is to make a combo box to change the preset numbers of my PM.
Here's what I've just done:

1. New empty workspace
2. (In the first patch of track 1) I insert a PM (picked in interface control), a fader (picked in interface design) and a Pass Only If Has Changed (picked in event control).
3. I wire PM num out to Pass if chg in
4. I configure my fader (min=0, max=7, prec=integer) and plug its right pin to PM left num pin
5. ... and I can't find any "list" pin input to plug the Pass if chg out

Sorry, I'm definitly a musician, not really equiped for logic

[bsork]

Sorry, bad explanation from me, the "list" is an input on the three list box modules (of which combo box is one).

The fader has only one input and one output, so connect the fader to the PM.num input and the PM.num output to the PassIfChg.in, and finally PassIfChg.out to the fader - so it appears that you almost got there. It takes more time do describe than do...

Without the Pass Only If Has Changed module - with just connections between the fader and the PM - you would find that the module you created last doesn't respond and only shows the number selected in the other module.

A little word of warning: You can fool yourself into believing connections like these are working without Pass Only If Has Changed if the audio engine is turned off or the track or patch is not activated. Since Usine in those cases won't do any calculations of the patch, the UI can be updated freely without actually anything else happening.

[La Tenaille]

Hello,
At last it works! Thank you. I can now synchronise each preset of the PM with the conductor.

Now I'm looking for a way to recall 24 presets (3 PM).
I've changed the fader to "0 to 23" and looking for a way to dispatch the signal that way:
0 to 7 to PM 1
8 to 15 to PM 2
16 to 23 to PM 3
If you are not too bored with my noob questions, I'll be happy to have some help

My goal is to use the VSTs just like a hardware multieffect, with a new configuration for each program change.
A lot of work left!

[Vincent]

I've changed the fader to "0 to 23" and looking for a way to dispatch the signal that way:
0 to 7 to PM 1
8 to 15 to PM 2
16 to 23 to PM 3

Hello La Tenaille, I've also tryed some stuff to do that, and it seems very heavy, so I'm just like you: waiting for the answer of master guru Bsork!
Remember, data flow always goes from left to right in the modules. But you can make loops with wires and 'pass only if change' modules, a great one, this one!

[bsork]

"Patching speaks louder than words..."

Check the 3PM.pat in the "others" section of the add-ons. Mind you, I haven't really tested it, just checked that the "Preset: Recall x" message shows in the console window.

I tried to add a name output as well, but it seems the name output of the PMs isn't updated unless the PM itself is clicked with a mouse.

[La Tenaille]

I didn't imagine it would be so complicated!

Before opening your patch I was thinking about that wiring:

- the fader wired to 3 filters that stop the flow for each PM if it doesn't match:
- ignore from 8 to 23 for PM1
- ignore from 0 to 7 and 16 to 23 for PM2
- ignore from 0 to 15 for PM3

- then a "A-B" combo, to convert 8 to 15 (for PM2 num) and 16 to 23 (for PM3 num) to 0 to 7

my trouble was to find the combos that stopped the wrong flows

Thanks for your work

[bsork]

Nothing wrong with your thinking! IIRC, my first attempts at doing something like this also used a lot of check like A<B, but that was before the Dispatcher module existed I think. Some of the complexity stems from the fact that the Recall x inputs on the PMs needs a button kind of trigger (first 1, then 0) to work if the preset slot is already selected in that module.

A general tip when patching stuff like this is to use integer math; DIV and MOD. Often much easier than using A<B, A>B etc.

If I have the time tonight, I might update the patch so that clicking with the mouse updates the fader.

[Vincent]

Yes, Bsork, my complicated stuff used MOD modules.
But, finally, I decided to have never more than 8 presets. Much more simpler, and certainly more convenient in the sequencer than in grid mode.
In the sequencer, I can have 8 presets in a patch, then again 8 presets in a copy of that patch (but further in the time line), and so on.
...Not sure I'm clear...

[bsork]

Hi Vincent, your clear enough for me!

And if any of you waited for an updated version, it wasn't as simple as I thought, and it's getting too late anyway... If there's anybody out there that would like to have such a patch, I'm certain that it's doable, but I won't spend more time on this unless someone asks for it. Especially since I seldom have more than 3 or 4 presets in a patch myself - if any at all.

[La Tenaille]

Your patch is perfect for me bsork

[amiga909]

offtopic:
1:

The "wires" in Usine are NOT bi-directional - the signal travels only one way, from outlets to inlets.

you are right. sorry if I have spread confusion. working with different software at the same time (synthedit) can lead to confusion. however this confusion arose from experimenting with circular signal paths in usine, eg. if you have a fader connected to a filter cutoff inlet of a vsti and you want to be able to change values from the fader module and from the vsti (and update vsti and fader gui vice versa) - think it was you who explained me how to use a pass-only-on-change module here

2: is my suspicion regarding the 'public variables' via interface modules correct?