Midi i/o

[komuso]

Hi.

How come I cannot select a midi out device on the midi out module?
The documentation specifically mentions your are able to select the device but there are only three parameters on my midi out - midi message to send, chan and sysex - no device as per rtfm.

"device in data 0 max device - Midi device to send the message (see p21)."


Also...how can I specifically lock a midi in to a particular midi device?

ty!

[nay-seven]

you can find/choose your midi devices in the setup panel ( ctrl + F5 )

then choose a midi canal for each one...? ( in or out )

you can also ( for example ) use a midi transform module for change a midi in ( canal 1 )
in a midi out ( canal 2 )

[komuso]

I have the midi devices set up correctly, but I want to direct the midi out to the correct device, not channel (1 - 16)

Every time I add a midi out module it always sends on the 1st midi out.

example:

Set midi yoke 1 and midi yoke 2 as midi input device 1 and 2 and midi output device 1 and 2 under ctrl F5
Open the sample library patch Draw Midi Controller

How do I change the midi out module to direct to different midi out devices (NOT channels 1-16)?
The manual says I can do this but there is no parameter I can see to select the correct device.
If I add another midi out it still sends on the first virtual midi out setup under ctrl F5 (I checked with midi yoke)

ty!

[nay-seven]

humm , strange
seems like a bug senso...?

[komuso]

and also how do I lock midi in to a specific device as well!!!

ty!

[La Tenaille]

Hello,
I try myself to change the channel out number, but I'm stuck ; I've tried different methods and my midi out module still sends on channel one... perhaps my problem is similar? Something I've missed?
Thanks for your help

[Vincent]

Hello,

I'm not sure I exactly understand the pb.
Let's check:
- First, choose your MIDI out preferences in the setup (and remember what device to which midi out # - just a number, it's not mapped to devices names).
- Then, in a patch, put a 'MidiOut' module. It works OK for more than one.
- Then, in the track mixer out panel, select the midi panel (small yellow switches) and, finally, in this pannel, select on which Usine's Midi Out you want to send (one combo box for each 'Midi Out' module).
I'm sure you did all that, so I don't see what does not work.
I use this a lot, and it's just fine, no matter what channel on what Midi Out. I have no bug!
There must be another explanation somewhere!

Rgds

[komuso]

Yes, I've done all that and it does not work.

In addition, the midi select boxes don't even show on the track mixer panel unless I put in a midi in module, even if it's not connected to anything. With just a midi out, they do not even show and therefore I have no ability to select!

Even if I put in a dummy midi in module just to get the boxes to show, all I still get is output to midi yoke 1 which is set as both input and output in setup. fyi midi yoke 2 and 3 are set up as I/O slots in setup as well. I've tested with midiox to see which channels it's working on and it consistantly on midiyoke 1, set as slot #1 in setup. Deselecting it on the track mixer and selecting slot 2 or 3 etc does nothing.

My midi setup works as well, I use midi yoke fine in reaper/bidule aok.

[nay-seven]

i know it's early in the morning here but what is strange for me here is

midi yoke 1 which is set as both input and output in setup

for me virtual cable is used as (example )
midiyoke 1 = midi out in Usine
midiyoke1 = midi in in Bidule

?? is'nt it..?

[komuso]

I'm not using usine and bidule together, it was an example of how I am using reaper/bidule.

I'm also not creating a feedback loop by using midiyoke one as input/output.
I just want a simple setup that maps some devices to virtual inputs, how I hook them up is my problem to avoid feedback.

ie; I may have midi yoke 1 set up as virtual input 1 and virtual output 1 and midi yoke 2 set up as virtual input 2 and virtual output 2 in usine, for example.

If I can select the devices correctly on patches then there is no possibility for midi feedback loops.

Unfortunately...the device selection does not seem to work - at least as far as I can see.

[Vincent]

Hi komuso,

You're right, you have to insert 'midi out' modules to see the out selectors in the track panel.
But, if there is no midi out in a track, why to be able to select any midi device there?
Modularity has it's own necessity.

So, my suggestion would be this:
In the patches where you have 'midi out' modules, add an 'Usine Panels / Track Mixer Out' module to decide to which device the midi out will be connected as soon as that patch is active.
This way, you insert the patch in a track, any track, and the midi setup of that track will be correctly set. And if you insert it in the sequencer, you can even draw curves to change the midi connexions in real time.
Since it's modular, this setup needs to be set by the module itself, that is, your patch itslef. Those adjustments should not be done at Usine's level but at the patch level. And, I repeat, it works fine (I'm using Maple Midi Tool instead of Midi Yoke, but I think it's similar).
It looks more logical to me, unless I still miss something.

I understand that you might be a little upset!
But you can be sure that the question in Usine is not "can I do this?" but mostly "HOW can I do this?". And we're here to try to give - and receive - answers to this question!
And if something cannot be done, Senso will do his best to understand what we need and, if possible, to quickly implement a solution! This is the very efficient growing-way of Usine.

rgds

EDIT: I think that the 'MIDI YOKE 1' you see in the Midi Out section of Usine's setup is not the same that the 'MIDI YOKE 1' you see in the Midi In section. In fact, if you got Midi Yoke 1 to 4, that means you have 8 midi yoke ports, 1 to 4 IN and 1 to 4 OUT. Am I wrong?
Unless you send any Midi Yoke IN back to any Midi Yoke Out (midi thru), in any of the two apps you use, you cannot have midi feed back.

[komuso]

Hi Vincent,
Ty for the info and help.

I guess I'm a little frustrated because the manual/help does not seem to match the program.
I'm one of those rare people that RTFM;-)

Hi komuso,

You're right, you have to insert 'midi out' modules to see the out selectors in the track panel.
But, if there is no midi out in a track, why to be able to select any midi device there?
Modularity has it's own necessity.

So, my suggestion would be this:
In the patches where you have 'midi out' modules, add an 'Usine Panels / Track Mixer Out' module to decide to which device the midi out will be connected as soon as that patch is active.
This way, you insert the patch in a track, any track, and the midi setup of that track will be correctly set. And if you insert it in the sequencer, you can even draw curves to change the midi connexions in real time.
Since it's modular, this setup needs to be set by the module itself, that is, your patch itslef. Those adjustments should not be done at Usine's level but at the patch level. And, I repeat, it works fine (I'm using Maple Midi Tool instead of Midi Yoke, but I think it's similar).
It looks more logical to me, unless I still miss something.

Actually it's the midi in modules I have to add to get the track mixer midi selections to show.

I tried the Track mixer module, which according to the documentation should allow you to select the midi device as it says "midi in/out data 0 8 - Midi output selector"

But my track mixer our does not show any midi outputs as far as I can see.

This is very strange.

Hi komuso,
I understand that you might be a little upset!
But you can be sure that the question in Usine is not "can I do this?" but mostly "HOW can I do this?". And we're here to try to give - and receive - answers to this question!
And if something cannot be done, Senso will do his best to understand what we need and, if possible, to quickly implement a solution! This is the very efficient growing-way of Usine.

The problem seems to be the documentation is way out of synch with the actual program with regards to doing a simple thing like set some virtual midi devices up and be able to patch out to anyone.

Both the midi out and track mixer out documentation are inconsistent with the modules midi device behavior, at least according to the full version of the program I have...and just bought;-)

I really appreciate the idea of the virtual midi setup, but I just can;t get it working and the inconsistent documentation ain't helping.

In bidule all I have to do is go to midi devices and drag a midi yoke 1 out and hook it up. No problems.
Very simple. I was expecting to be able to do something similar here, but it seems very confusing.

Could one of the developers please post exactly how I should do this considering the documentation and my modules do not match?

Many thanks!
kt

[Vincent]

hi again, komuso,

About the doc... you're right, it's out of date. I did some stufs there more than one year ago and nothing since that date. I have no time for this and the matter is to keep up with Senso and Usine's evolving! Sorry I really have NO time now.

But my track mixer our does not show any midi outputs as far as I can see.
This is very strange.

Sure there is no midi outlet (neither inlet) on the 'track mixer in (or out)' module, since this module only selects the midi connection (equivalent of the eight yellow switches on top of any track that contains 'Midi In' modules). It's an 'Usine's Panel' module, not a 'Midi' one, neither an 'In / Out' one. Think of it like a midi(/aux/audio) router - not like a virtual link.
That means that you just need a 'midi in (or out, according to your need)' module as usual. So just keep your patch like it is now, but add there the 'mixer in (or out)' module(s) you need to make the good connections.

In Usine, it's very simple too. But it's very different and, maybe, unusual since it's build to do what others don't. What is simple is what one knows well... I think that no other software reaches that level of modularity.
Keep on patching, komuso, you'll do it!

[komuso]

I figured it out..finally.

The midi out device is selected by dropdown box when you select mid in the track mixer output on the bottom of the screen. No need to put a Usine Panel module on the patch (which does not match the documentation anyway and is confusing).

A simple extra picture in the midi out section of the manual showing how to select this would be most useful to clearing up confusion I think.

I like usine concept, and look, and functionality, but I really think it needs some clearer explanations of basic functions like setting up a simple midi io device switching.


ty!

[Vincent]

I figured it out..finally.

I knew it!

[komuso]

yes, but it was extremely frustrating and time consuming for such an obvious basic function.

Honestly, as a developer myself who regularly learns new software packages as matter of course it is ESSENTIAL for a good product to have good, accurate documentation. Forums are great, but are for the hard questions. For dumb noob questions such as mine the first port of call is a thorough RTFM!

...and ty to all who posted their help as well!

As powerful as Usine is, I don't see it going very far until it solves this issue with its development.
Please accept this feedback in the spirit it is intended. I'm not complaining as such, just pointing out that I was unable to quickly get up to speed on a new complex piece of software because the documentation is out of synch with software, and not really clearly explained.

The quickstart guide was good, but it was after this I ran into trouble.

Onwards and upwards!

[nay-seven]

hum
don't forget that sensomusic is not Ableton
sensomusic don't have 2 or 3 guys only for the helpfile....
sensomusic is only 1 guy !
and i can confirm you that he work really hard !
helpfile will be update as soon as it's possible...

[Vincent]

don't forget that sensomusic is not Ableton
sensomusic don't have 2 or 3 guys only for the helpfile....
sensomusic is only 1 guy !

That's true, Yan, but I think that, about the doc, komuso is absolutly right too. He woke me up. Thanks to Komuso...
So, after the great V4 is out, I'll take time to update the quick start and relaese it before... well... before 2009. Okay.
Since it's out ouf topic here, I post a new thread in 'General', let's meet there!

rgds.

[woodslanding]

Just to make you feel better-- I've been using Plogue Bidule for almost three years, and they've hardly updated their manual that whole time (and it's just one big helpfile page with some embedded links in it....)

Usine is shoestring software for a shoestring price. If you want massive support, I think MAX/MSP would be the way to go. But I like Usine's price point

cheers!
-e