Hello everyone from a new Usine user!

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 13 Oct 2008, 21:30

Hi All!

I'd like to introduce myself, explain my interest in Usine and ask a few preliminary questions....

My name is Eric Moon, and I'm a full-time professional performing and recording keyboardist living in Colorado, USA, and I'm looking at moving my live setup to Usine. I'm extremely excited by the quality, flexibility and pace of development of Usine. I realize Usine is geared more for DJs wanting to manipulate sequences than for keyboardists who play all the notes in realtime, but it seems quite flexible enough to work in my situation too! And I'm anxious to figure out how to incorporate more DJ-ish tools into my setup.

I currently work with about a dozen different songwriters, as well as several jazz and blues artists and bands. I play 4-6 nights a week, performing concerts and in nightclubs, and I also do several recording sessions each month. I've toured as a tech with Bjork and as a keyboardist with Nina Hagen, done sound design for Alesis' QS-series, Andromeda and Fusion synthesizers, and wrote a tabular data manipulation tool in Java Swing for a major eCatalog company. My main creative electronic project right now is gogoLab (gogoLab.com)

I've got a lot of questions/ideas in using Usine. Not sure which are which yet, as I'm still very new to the program. Any suggestions about stragegies for implementing my setup in Usine would be welcome, and of course, I'm inevitably going to mention wishing for something that can be done more elegantly in the program already. My apologies in advance--this is a deep program!

MY SETUP

I'm an absolute newby to Usine, but not to running live virtual instruments. My current setup consists of two keyboards--a weighted digital piano, and a novation controller. I run a dell small format desktop PC with a 15" touchscreen, touchpad and keyboard attached. I have a hammerfall multiface, and an old yamaha MIDI control box with breath control. Lastly there are two control pedals, two control switches, an uninterruptible power supply and an SM58 mic. All but the piano are built into a fender-rhodes sized case, which splits to form the top keyboard and the pedal board. I can set it up in under 10 minutes.

On the software end, I run Plogue Bidule, with Reaktor for the GUI. MIDI comes into bidule, gets remapped and rechannelized in various ways, and then is sent into reaktor. My reaktor instrument is set up like a mixer, with controls for seven VSTis. I currently run B4, Mr. Ray, my own custom rewrite of Reaktor's Steampipe, PRO-53, Absynth, and two identical banks of Kontakt with about 90 multi-samples loaded into RAM. The top half of the mixer does MIDI mapping. I have an area to allow me to dynamically re-assign the knobs and sliders from my controller to specific VST parameters using my touchscreen. The control destinations are selected by name using scrolling textboxes. Below this I have a set of buttons to allow me to assign either or both of my keyboards to control each instrument, and a set of transpose buttons. MIDI control thus reassigned comes back out of reaktor into plogue where it is routed to all the VSTis. The audio outputs of the instruments are patched back into reaktor, where they go through a mixer with effect sends. Then the audio comes out of reaktor and is routed to the audio output.

So basically, while I am playing live, I have a mix of 7 virtual instruments that I can select presets for, reassign controllers to, layer, transpose, assign to different keyboards, and mix with effects sends, all from one window--and then save with a click. I can easily arrange all the setups for a show during a rehearsal without interrupting the flow, provided I don't have to dive into individual VSTi's for serious sound-design.

However, my setup has some major drawbacks. First of all, Reaktor comboboxes are too small to control easily from my touchscreen. Also, I can't disable double-clicks. It's very difficult to add a new instrument to the layout, because I have to manually populate the program and parameter comboboxes for each new vst, as well as reassigning a bunch of parameter controls in bidule. And changing the routing in Reaktor breaks all existing presets. That said, this setup has been working really well for the last year and a half.

BANKS OF PRESETS

I'm not sure first of all, whether a setup like mine in Usine should consist of 7 different patches, one patch, or dozens. Can I save and recall presets for the whole workspace??? Or just patch by patch? My current arrangement makes it easy to name setups, and recall them by name from a combo box. It sounds like in Usine, the basic bank size is 8 presets(?) And they don't get named(?) I have about 300 presets so far for my rig. Although I do a lot of mapping and layering on the fly, it's also very easy to save something when I like how it sounds and functions. I need that kind of flexibility for preset management. I'd also like an easier way of reorganizing patches, so for instance, I could have a separate bank for each artist I work with. And it's crucial that I not have to rewire things to add a new bank.

Okay, I've read more, and it looks like there is a master preset list in the conductor that has unlimited(?) preset slots for the whole workspace. True?? Is this a total recall for the workspace, or do I still need to embed preset controls in every sub-group?? I'm hoping there is drag-and-drop support for reordering presets. I'm also hoping there is some way to select these presets from the touchscreen interface window.....

VST FORMS

It seems so far like the vst visibility control doesn't guarantee visibility--if I manually close the vst window, I have to double-click the object from the patchbay to open it, even if 'form visible' is enabled. Is this a bug, or by design? I have buttons in my current layout (masquerading as channel labels) that open up the vst forms via bidule, and it's important that I be able to do this in performance, without having to leave the control window....

SEND RECIEVE

Is there any kind of send-recieve in Usine? Or does everything have to be manually cabled up? Or can I use OSC for this?? I'm pretty new to OSC..... Anyway, this feature is a pretty huge timesaver when you get sub-sub-sub patches going!

Well, there's the first round of questions.... I'll be posting more specific questions as they come up.

Thanks in Advance for any tips and insight--I'm really looking forward to investigating this program further--It looks spectacular!

cheers,
-eric

Clearscreen · Unread post by **Clearscreen** » 14 Oct 2008, 02:15

Hi Eric, nice to meet you. you've got a fair few questions there so if i miss anything out let us know and hopefully someone will have an answer. Firstly though, don't write usine off as being a more dj oriented tool - i know i use it for live improvisation and i'm currently trying to build a useful touchscreen synthesizer to that end. but combined with reaktor and some vst's though it's a pretty strong loop tool i have to admit. if you've been using bidule and reaktor i think you'll find it's pretty close to both of them but with a more accessible interface and not quiet as steep a learning curve.

i think you'll love the way usine handles comboboxes in tough mode - they can be as large as you need and become a type of fader where you point and drag to scroll through the options. not sure this'll suit you but it works pretty well for me so far.

in the last week i've been working on a similar idea to you're reaktor interface to control bidule - i've created a simple interface (so far) that consists of 9 knobs & 9 buttons (so i could easily assign it with my kenton killamix) that get feedback (using Usines data busses - have a look at the 'busses' menu under the input-output section of the 'modules' menu in the browser). this means that as i skip down through patches each assigned knob/button takes values and captions from the active patch via the feedback busses, the killamix is also updated via midi remote feedback, but if you're using a touchscreen this is less necessary really. i have the idea that this inteface could be extended to a 'virtual' bcr2000 style setup with (for example) 32 knobs and a set of buttons, all of which alter to suit which row of the grid you're on, or which patch or preset you're using. i also picture a monome type of interface using usines data busses or OSC (so we can use the monome software base as well). when i get a second i might put this setup in the add-ons area, hope it's useful to you!?

you're right about the preset manager being limited to 8, but oliviers is i beilieve looking at changing this but i'm not sure when. if you have a look in the add-ons section i'm pretty sure someone's built a workaround that uses three preset manager modules to give 24 available presets (i'm not certain about this but i'm sure i remember it being discussed in the forum at one time). i haven't used the conductor too much so i'm not sure about the preset management there but it wouldn't surprise me if it did have better management. most times when i think i've found something i can't do in usine there's turned out to be a better and different way tucked away somewhere.

interesting what you say about the 'show vst' switch - it works fine for me - i've set up one of the buttons in my killamix interface to do just that and it seems to work fine. can you give us some more information abotu whats happening there and maybe we can work it out - have you assigned something via midi to do that? if so maybe the mid remote mode is st to toggle instead of absolute?

you ask about the send/receive stuff and OSC but the data busses i mentioned earlier probably will do what you're after although OSC will do the trick as well. i'm guessing you're looking for something like what reaktor does with send/receive which is essentially what the data busses do.

hope this helps mate and if you have any other questions don't be afraid to ask

[edit - i've put an example workspace of the killamix thing i was talking about in the add-ons section]

La Tenaille · Unread post by **La Tenaille** » 14 Oct 2008, 09:56

Hi Eric

Clearscreen wrote:i'm pretty sure someone's built a workaround that uses three preset manager modules to give 24 available presets

Bsork did it for me. It's called "3PM" and can be found in the add-ons "other" section.

About the VST show/hide, be sure not to leave the engine off and/or the patch bypassed. Sometimes I forget and don't understand why things don't work!

As I'm still a beginner, I can't answer your other questions; but I use Usine with a 100% acoustic set, and things are getting very exciting after a few days of practicing

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 14 Oct 2008, 19:34

Thanks for the responses, guys!

I probably I left the engine turned off. That's been the explanation more than once, when something didn't work!

I want to look further into how the conductor presets work--there's not much explanation in the manual. I often write more than 8 presets in a week, so 24 is not really any more of a long term solution than 8......

I didn't know about the data busses--I'll have to look into that!

cheers!
-eric

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 14 Oct 2008, 21:04

@woodstanding : I know that I have to enhance some parts of the manual. Usine starts to be a huge software, also for me...

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 14 Oct 2008, 22:36

woodslanding wrote:I want to look further into how the conductor presets work--there's not much explanation in the manual. I often write more than 8 presets in a week, so 24 is not really any more of a long term solution than 8......

You can easily expand the 24 presets available in the 3PM patch that's been mentioned with a copy'n'paste and a couple of wires if you so wish. BTW, the Preset Manager module only saves the (sub-)patch it's in together with any sub-patches. Sub-patches can contain their own PMs. If you only want to save a lot of presets, you actually don't have to do more than add more PM modules - each one handles 8 presets. The 3PM patch is only for easy selection of more than 8 presets using a list box or MIDI. And you can name the presets if you want.

As from V4, the Conductor stores a named snapshot of the whole grid, not only active/selected patches. A natural consequence of the "rack" (serial) and "all" (parallell) options for the tracks, as all patches can in fact be active - selected or not. The Conductor can store more snapshots than you'll ever need, and you also have 8 different banks too choose from. There's no drag'n'drop support for reordering the snapshots, but you can append, rewrite, insert and delete them. You can also copy'n'paste whole banks. When setting up the workspace, you'll probably want to use the "normal" Conductor as it offers more options, but the "lite" version is more suited for touch screens. And if that one isn't quite what you want, you can always create your own interface.

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 15 Oct 2008, 06:05

It is a big program! Even Bsork doesn't know you can reorder conductor presets with drag-and-drop.... You just have to grab the line number.

I'm delighted about the way conductor is managing presets so far. I don't think I need any more preset management than this. And I love the long patch names! But there are a few little bugs with it that I'm putting in the bug section, and a feature request I'll put in the appropriate section as well.

cheers!
-e

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 15 Oct 2008, 06:13

well, I can't seem to post to the bug section, so I'll put this here, and you can move it if you want to:

If I attach a number fader to the conductor, the buttons attached to increment and decrement inputs no longer work. Nor can the patches be changed from the 'lite' window.

I assume I could setup logic to increment and decrement the fader itself without using the inc and dec inputs, but I haven't gotten it to work yet. I need to go back and see how I did it in reaktor, where it is also a challenge! I also note that when I change the conductor patch from the fader, it updates the active patch in the conductor display, but the reverse is not true. I guess this is another situation I would need to patch around.... but I assume I can't just loop the conductor out into the fader in....

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 15 Oct 2008, 07:47

woodslanding wrote:It is a big program! Even Bsork doesn't know you can reorder conductor presets with drag-and-drop.... You just have to grab the line number.

Well, we all learn something new every day! Thanks!

I never thought of clicking on the number, only the names - silly me.

About the fader: All the "wires" in Usine patches are uni-directional, so if you have a fader directly connected to the "num" input of the Conductor, it's only the fader that controls the snapshot number and no message is passed back to the fader. However, in most case (lilke this one), this is easily fixed using the Events Control/PassOnlyIfHasChanged module. Connect Conductor.num -> PassOnlyIfHasChanged -> Fader -> Conductor.num. It looks like a feedback loop, but it isn't. Sometimes I think you might have to use the PassOnlyIfHasChanged on both sides of the fader or whatever control you're using, but that migth just be my memory of earlier incarnations of Usine. Why having Fader -> PassOnlyIfHasChanged -> Conductor.num didn't work in this case, I'm not really sure.

...and remember to right-click the fader and choose "Not stored in Conductor/Preset"...

beatsystem · Unread post by **beatsystem** » 15 Oct 2008, 16:12

hi
I just downloaded this great program,thanks to all

subvibes · Unread post by **subvibes** » 20 Oct 2008, 19:06

this is a test entry. cheers. andre.

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 20 Oct 2008, 19:25

welcome André!!

jeanjean · Unread post by **jeanjean** » 24 Oct 2008, 13:33

Hello i'm new here too !

And i have one specific question : i'm keyboardist in a band, and i plan to switch from Brainspawn Forte to Usine for my live usage (full VSTi setup), but i need confirmation it'll fit my needs.

What i need is : load all my VSTs in memory at startup, then by pressing a key, i want to activate / inactivate some VSTs, switch presets, change midi CC routings, keyboard splits etc.

Is it all possible without routing limitations in Usine ?
Any facilities to manage songs order etc ?

Maybe these are basic questions, but i want to be sure before taking the hard way to master new software

Thank you

bsork · Unread post by **bsork** » 24 Oct 2008, 22:00

Hello and welcome! I think you've come to the right place. You can create practically any routing within Usine, you can active and deactivate as much as you please, and customize almost everything if you want. How much or little work it takes, obviously depends on what you have in mind.

There are several ways of managing the order of setups/songs. If you like to have one big workspace with everything in it, you can for instance use the conductor which holds a practically unlimited number of snapshots/scenes of the whole grid, and you can have ten different sets stored together. Some like to use the sequencer for this type of thing without necessarily using any sequencing, storing each song or part of song at markers.

If you want to have a go at it, feel free to ask for whatever here on the forum.

theau · Unread post by **theau** » 25 Oct 2008, 00:22

Hi every one. After registering 15 times (spam box deleting pswd...), I finally arrived to this place. Feels confortable, promising, and exiting. I'm still learning on the free version how patch are created, and will soon upgrade for the pro version (midi learn, addons etc...)

Aside, I try to make my Iphone communicate with Usine V4 (multi touch supported) using TouchOSC. I think it could make a really great controller for Usine (small, wireless etc...). I'm really not a programmer, and spend most of my time on my wurlitzer keyboard or my guitar. Bur I'll try, and maybe one day, I'll upload an addon.

Cheers to all of you, and special dedicace to Olivier.

theau

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 25 Oct 2008, 06:35

I have been studying usine very carefully, and I will echo vivens in saying, if Usine doesn't do it, senso will probably be very quick in implementing it. He takes user feedback very seriously!

I think you will be really happy.... Of course, I'm still some weeks away from using it live, but I'm studying hard!

I also think that Usine SOUNDS better than my old system of Plogue Bidule and Reaktor.... maybe it's my imagination.

-e

YouTube · Unread post by **senso** » 25 Oct 2008, 09:57

I also think that Usine SOUNDS better than my old system of Plogue Bidule and Reaktor.... maybe it's my imagination.

reaktor has a built-in wave shaper and limiter. It changes the sound, in a good way for synth (fat sound) but not for other sound manipulation.

@theau: impatient to try the iphone in Usine

woodslanding · Unread post by **woodslanding** » 25 Oct 2008, 22:39

ahhh.... interesting! Okay. I assumed the reaktor output path was essentially clean. good to know.

I did my AB test with the B4. It actually sounded 'fatter' through Usine....

cheers,
-e

jeanjean · Unread post by **jeanjean** » 28 Oct 2008, 22:12

OK sounds like a go for me & the demo version, cheers everyone !

J.

Vincent · Unread post by **Vincent** » 29 Oct 2008, 15:26

woodslanding wrote:I also think that Usine SOUNDS better than my old system of Plogue Bidule and Reaktor.... maybe it's my imagination.

So we imagine all the same...
The sound is indeed much more interseting in Usine than in any other VSTi host. Even Reaktor's sound is greater in Usine, I just love it.
But maybe it's my imagination... you're right...

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